I Just Don't Understand

[Jave]

I know you think their market method is wise, cautious and well played, but frankly it's the equivilent of an impulsive child who wants his or her newly planted seed to grow into a tall tree overnight and takes it out of the ground for not producing the desired results.

I don't "think" it is. I KNOW it is. Right now there isn't any "better" strategy for Nickelodeon to follow, as they're doing what logic dictates. Unlike CN, Nick has no need for taking risks.

Antiyonder, I think you're using this topic to soapbox your own issues with the network. You need to stop being so biased and try looking at it from a businness perspective, not from a fan's POV. Then you'll understand the situation better

 

[Antiyonder]

I don't "think" it is. I KNOW it is. Right now there isn't any "better" strategy for Nickelodeon to follow, as they're doing what logic dictates. Unlike CN, Nick has no need for taking risks.

Antiyonder, I think you're using this topic to soapbox your own issues with the network. You need to stop being so biased and try looking at it from a businness perspective, not from a fan's POV. Then you'll understand the situation better

I happen to be a Spongebob fan, thus the biased argument is incorrect. And as I said, Spongebob would have ended at Season 3 if Nick applied the same strategy earlier in the decade. I merely keep repeating the same points because you ignore certain details of the arguement rather than actually responding to them.

 

[The Huntsman]

I happen to be a Spongebob fan, thus the biased argument is incorrect. And as I said, Spongebob would have ended at Season 3 if Nick applied the same strategy earlier in the decade. I merely keep repeating the same points because you ignore certain details of the arguement rather than actually responding to them.

I see no flaw in your argument. If I remember correctly, “Seinfeld” was almost cancelled because it wasn’t that successful in its first few seasons, but it ultimately took off and became a huge success. Sometimes, television programs need to be nurtured in order to become successful; the people who work on the series need time in order to get their feet wet and learn how to make the series as entertaining as possible, and time is also needed in order to get an established fan base. Nickelodeon needs to stop canceling their animated programs so early if they wish to give them an opportunity to reach the desired level of success.

 

[Jave]

I happen to be a Spongebob fan, thus the biased argument is incorrect. And as I said, Spongebob would have ended at Season 3 if Nick applied the same strategy earlier in the decade. I merely keep repeating the same points because you ignore certain details of the arguement rather than actually responding to them.

You know, have you even read my posts? I've never said anything about them canceling their shows early, I've been refering exclusively to their treatment of Spongebob.

And I stand by my statement, if a network can get good ratings by showing the same show as much as they do, then they are free to do so.

Since I've made my point here, there's nothing left for me to say in this thread. I'm done.

 

[Antiyonder]

I've never said anything about them canceling their shows early,

I'm not talking about their canceled shows, but the irony that Spongebob Squarepants would have been among the many canceled or ended programs if they implemented the smart practice much sooner.

I've been refering exclusively to their treatment of Spongebob.

1. And as I said, it works against them as because once the show burns out it will be restricted to reruns on Nicktoons and premieres only on Nickelodeon. Whereas if they cutback on repeats, the probability of viewers tiring of the show would be a non issue and they could even keep the show on the network even when it does stop interms of new episodes. I mean aside from Jimmy Neutron, has any other Nicktoon seen a constant regular airtime on Nickelodeon since ending or after cancelation?

So you see, my criticism is because I want the show to stay on the network as much as I want diversity.

2. Like I said before, the show is a hit because they showed it and Fairly Oddparents a great deal of patience when they were modest successes. But the problem is that Nick doesn't realize that, and when the time comes that both shows burnout, then they will be without a blockbuster hit (Because again they don't show any of their new programs patience). Cause frankly, to my experiences, whether a show fails or succeeds, networks don't really question or examine the reasoning for the results. They just accept the results.

2a. Hence it is better to take a risk when you're on top rather than waiting until said risk is your only option. Like I said before, you take a risk while you're on top, you have your hits to sustain any financial injuries. Whereas if you take a risk when you're struggling, you have no support to keep you going.

2b. You mention CN having to take risks because they have no choice, but part of why the network was successful in the first place is because they gave us cartoons that Disney and Nick would either avoid doing or hesitate. Infact it seems like they started failing when they decided to play it safe. By that I mean that they would limit the categories of their shows to either kid centered comedy sitcoms or action/adventure anime.

Since I've made my point here, there's nothing left for me to say in this thread. I'm done.

Fair enough, but should you change your mind, please tell specifically why my arguements are wrong. Mainly my venting in this topic is that while you explain why you agree with Nick's method, you barely discuss the flaws in my arguement.

 

[That Don Guy]

True, but if the networks thought that airing the same show constantly would improve the ratings, they'd probably ditch the other shows and focus on the top one.

You mean Nickelodeon has stopped doing this?

How many times was, say, a new Hey Arnold! episode pre-empted for a Rugrats repeat...or how about the time the final episode of The Wild Thornberrys was pre-empted twice in the same week, first for SpongeBob, and then for The Fairly Oddparents?

-- Don

 

[MegaJ]

Weekend marathons are pretty reasonable compared to say marathons everyday. Their other shows still got some good airtime.

Ooh ho ho, Rugrats got more than weekend marathons. Maybe it wasn't reran as much as Spongebob but it got reran a lot.

So I'm still in the camp that the general audience just needs some time to get use to some animated serials.

I wish it was that easy, all those adult-oriented cartoons have standalone episodes through and through. Because of the Animation Age Ghetto most adults think cartoons are kids stuff anyway and aren't going to tune in to a serial and I don't think kids have the patients. Avatar kinda sorta broke the mold, but I don't think animated serials are going to catch on anytime soon. Not a very good example to apply here, IMO.

Fair enough, but should you change your mind, please tell specifically why my arguements are wrong.

You do make good points and the arguement isn't wrong, the fundamental point still remains: Why would Nick take a risk by rerunning a new, unproven series when they could just air Spongebob? It's just not good business strategy, period. You keep saying what if SB and FOP burn out, and well it hasn't happen yet. I'm sure they do have irons in the fire just waiting to be pull out in case in happens.

 

[Antiyonder]

I wish it was that easy, all those adult-oriented cartoons have standalone episodes through and through. Because of the Animation Age Ghetto most adults think cartoons are kids stuff anyway and aren't going to tune in to a serial and I don't think kids have the patients. Avatar kinda sorta broke the mold, but I don't think animated serials are going to catch on anytime soon. Not a very good example to apply here, IMO.

I'm talking animation serials in general. Aside from the KidsWB 1999-2001 and Toonami, how often have networks had more than one new serial show?

For instance, Disney only had Gargoyles, while Nick only had Avatar. Even then, The Spectacular Spider-Man dominated the non serial shows on the KidsWB line up.

Even then, as I said, it took at least a decade until adults gained any exception of animation at all (Simpsons and Beavis & Butthead aside), but that changed with Adult Swim.

Why would Nick take a risk by rerunning a new, unproven series when they could just air Spongebob?

Because they took a risk in running Spongebob when it wasn't the current cashcow and it paid off. To reverse my previous comment, had Avatar, Danny Phantom and Avatar aired earlier in the decade, they'd get more of a chance to stretch their legs.

They took the same risk with Fairly Oddparents (which wasn't in the same league as Spongebob or Rugrats in the first season).

Their first major Nicktoons (Rugrats) wasn't a hit until Season 3 hit syndication, so it seems pretty risky that they didn't pull it after Season 2.

Actually, back when they took chances:

A. Their shows either made it up to 90 or more episodes. Even if they didn't there would still be some requests for them to air in syndication.

B. Even if they ended at 52-65 episodes, they were still apparently successful enough for reruns. Thus they weren't forgotten instantly. Probably helped that they didn't air excessively before ending either.

Now compare it to Nick's play it safe era:

A. Not a single show since Fairly Oddparents (The last show which that was given time to find an audience) has gone over 65 episodes or is still continuing.

B. Aside from Jimmy Neutron, not a single show has been allowed regular repeats.

I think the risking taking era had the advantage all around.

It's just not good business strategy, period.

How so? If they take a chance now and fail, they still have their successful shows to keep them going. I mean how much damage could one failed program make when you have 9 other programs bringing in the dough?

Besides, if they would cut back on Spongebob airings it would lower the risk of the show burning out, hence the show could probably remain on the network up to 2020.

I agree that they should play it safe, but the best way to do that is showing caution, not panic.

You keep saying what if SB and FOP burn out, and well it hasn't happen yet. I'm sure they do have irons in the fire just waiting to be pull out in case in happens.

If they are really planning longterm, but the whole focusing on the hits without giving other shows a chance for growth stinks of focusing on the here and now.

 

[Junko Black]

Nickelodeon's schedule sucks. How can they have SpongeBob on 13 times today? For the most part their schedule is mostly SpongeBob, some iCarly and some Drake and Josh. How about 12 episodes of SpongeBob to make room for one episode of Avatar or at least a halfway decent show? I can't understand how a network can survive on three shows. I know I'm exaggerating and they occasionally air a different show or two, but come on!

I can understand the feeling. It overloads you and you get tired of seeing it. Like when you keep hearing of the same celebrity over and over again and eventually you yell "Enough already!" and ignore them with all your might. Kind of like the media and Britney Spears.

And I hope that does not imply that

Spongebob = Britney Spears of cartoons

 

[Silverstar]

So, no one remembers when Nick reran the crud out of Rugrats?

When Rugrats first started getting acknowledgment as one of Nick's heavy hitters, that's when it started to get rerun to death, especially after it began airing on weekday afternoons/evenings. Rugrats even aired on Nick Jr. for a time. There was also one night when Nick staged a Viewer Request Night, where for 2 straight hours, fans got to call in and request which shows Nick would air. Perhaps coincidentally or not so coincidentally, all 4 half-hours were won by Rugrats.

When Rugrats was Nick's biggest hit, it got rerun a lot, and now that Spongebob has established himself as a proven cash cow, he's getting the same treatment. It's just The Ratings Game in full swing.

 

[judyindisguise]

Hahaha, that made me laugh really hard. But it's funny because it's true.

Yeah, that was gold. (wipes tear from eye).

 

[Banoon]

Nick America must be really messed up. I like SpongeBob (seen every episode at least twice) , but I don't like it THAT much. Over here in New Zealand, Avatar is actually aired MORE than SpongeBob.

 

[Antiyonder]

Nick America must be really messed up. I like SpongeBob (seen every episode at least twice) , but I don't like it THAT much. Over here in New Zealand, Avatar is actually aired MORE than SpongeBob.

Does it dominate the schedule ?

 

[Racattack!Force]

Does it dominate the schedule ?

I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did.

 

[Charles Chimag]

Where can I get tickets to go to New Zealand, I wonder....

 

[Plowhead]

If were talking overkill

Transformers aired 7 times a week in its first run between 84 and 87. Its second run on the newly launched SCI-FI Network was 5 days a week.

 

[Antiyonder]

Transformers aired 7 times a week in its first run between 84 and 87. Its second run on the newly launched SCI-FI Network was 5 days a week.

But did it take up four slots on the network everyday?

 

[Jave]

I'll say this. Back when Spongebob's first season was airing I clearly recall everybody speaking about the show, and by everybody I mean kids and adults. Even if the ratings weren't as big as they are now, the reception the show got was clearly a lot higher of what Nick expected of it. I don't think any other show post-FOP has really managed to capture an audience as early as Spongebob has.

Avatar was a good show, but it was probably Nick's biggest experiment as it was a cartoon aimed at a more specific audience and it was more serial than episodic (which is definitely unusual for Nick). Still it had a good run, 60 episodes and a movie is nothing to be ashamed of. I'll take someone's word in this thread that Danny Phantom cost too much to produce, but it also had a good run, with a movie finale as well.

I'm not going to pretend I know much about the most recent Nicktoons, but I seriously don't believe any of them managed to catch to an audience the way Spongebob did.

 

[Banoon]

Does it dominate the schedule ?

Not quite, but it certainly does show a lot.... about 3-5 times a day.

It could, however, be because we haven't got the finale yet

 

[Antiyonder]

Not quite, but it certainly does show a lot.... about 3-5 times a day.

It could, however, be because we haven't got the finale yet

Is this in another country or continuum? Personally I think both should get equal treatment as one is the best comedy cartoon on the network with the other being the best action cartoon on the network.

Even if the ratings weren't as big as they are now, the reception the show got was clearly a lot higher of what Nick expected of it.

And that's another reason why shows post FOP don't stay around long enough to build an audience. High expectations. In the previous decades up to the middle of this decade, network didn't regularly expect a new show to be a megahit. They simply expected a new program to produce solid stable ratings. If a show evolved into a hit, then so be it. But for those that are patient and don't raise their hope to a godly level, your cashcow can come from some unexpected places.

1. Look at Disney's first most successful cartoon Ducktales. It started life as a mere miniseries (Treasure Of The Golden Sun), but did better than the boys at Disney expected. Thus it not only reached the 65 episodes mark, but surpased it.

2. Then there's Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, which was intended as a 40 episode show. While the show had merchandise tie ins, they weren't expecting it to become a trendy and successful show. Compare that to the shows that were made to cash in on Power Rangers (VR Troopers, Beetleborgs, Masked Rider, Super Human Samurai Cyber Squad). The shows that were made for popularities sake are obscure, while the show that was made with modest intentions made it over 500 episodes and lasted over a decade.

3a. Going with the comic book route. Spider-Man when conceived wasn't intended to become Marvel's icon. He was made as an effort to tell stories about a teen hero who wasn't a sidekick or teammate. And yet he's an icon despite the fact that: A. He went against the super hero rules, B. Was made with modest intent, C. Made his first appearance in an ending magazine.

3b. Wolverine who became yet another popular character for Marvel wasn't intended as a popular character. He was made to be a one time opponent for the Hulk, only to later appear in X-Men as well, you know the rest.

4. Going with the internet videos, James Rolfe/The Angry Video Game Nerd is one of the most popular online series. Unlike some of the other online celebrities, James didn't even consider the idea that his satrical game reviews would be popular. He made and submitted two videos (Castlevania 2 Simon's Quest and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde) as a joke and uploaded them at the request of his friends. Not only did he become popular, but made online game reviews a popular thing. Again, we get another case of a series being made as a result of modest reasons, only to evolve into a hit.