Biggest Bombs for AS Anime

Aside from a few smash hits..anime has never done well on Adult swim, I myself love Case Closed, its one of my all time favriote series, but it should have been on Toonami, not AS. As for Paranoia Agent' I thought it was a good show, guess a psychological Thriller is just to much for all those "Mature" people who view AS (lol) I thought Moribito was good as well, just rather boring at times, it probably would have worked better on Sci-fi.

Now heres some shows that were TRULY AWFUL!

REIGN, S-CRY-ED. Super Milk-chan, Wolfs rain.

Most anime were enjoyable, but there were indeed many that just weren't really AS material.
 
Judging from all the shows that people disliked in here, the one thing Adult Swim proved is that viewers, in general, aren't very adventurous. AS programmers aimed too high at times.

Should have aimed for lowest common denominator.
 
Yes, I have a list.

1. Cowboy BeBop. Sure, it looked great and had a marvelous score, but let's face facts. There weren't enough explosions or gunfights. We'd be lucky if 50% of a given episode were devoted to action instead of the plot. I think I knew it would go bad after I saw Honky Tonk Woman for the first time. How much time do they waste gambling in that casino before the good stuff starts?

2. Big O. Fifteen minutes of exposition and investigative work has to happen before Roger finally kicks into action with the title giant robot. Who on Earth thought this was a good idea?

3. Bleach. Ah-ha, real blood at last! This had badass action--when they aren't spending all that time talking or indulging in comic relief, that is. Sigh.

4. Lupin III. An old show about a playboy thief. Not very exciting! Wit and humor and heists alone don't make a good show.

5. Samurai Champloo. This could have been like Afro Samurai or Ninja Scroll. Instead it wasted too much time on characterization, and then we got stupid comedy like Baseball Blues. Why did they have to let writing get in the way?
_________

Okay. That farce went on for long enough.

Now before anyone hastens to hit the reply button to claim that I'm comparing BeBop to Wolf's Rain or some such nonsense, no, that's not the point. It is simply a bit odd to see shows like Moribito getting dissed because they don't compare against some idealized version of Adult Swim that never actually existed. There are very, very few pure action series in the history of the block. Many that are obvious action shows, like Inu-Yasha and Bleach and Yu Yu Hakusho, have over the years been subject to debate as to whether they're mature enough. Heh.

But I won't just offer skepticism and just walk out. I'll offer a list. Not a bottom 10 list since I don't think there are that many, but a list. This is purely about worthiness, incidentally, not ratings, which I agree are a crappy metric to judge on for reasons already said.

1. Milk Chan. Lame humor, weak animation, and all in all something that has more in common with William Streets' lower tier comedy efforts. Not a fan.

2. Pilot Candidate. Okay sure, it was an early show, but that's no excuse. It would have been a lame Toonami show too. All in all, it's rather lackluster. There were all sorts of hints to a much greater and broader storyline that never really materialized because the series was only 13 episodes long. As-is, what exists is a pretty rushed mess with vaguely defined conflicts and plot points that were never addressed (exactly why could that one woman be an Ingrid pilot when it's not supposed to be possible?). The focus of the series, such as it is, is on the relationships involving the rather generic boy protagonist with big dreams and the strong silent jackass that never really gets over himself. Let's not forget the uninteresting animation either, especially the artificial looking robots. By the time of Strain: Strategic Armored Infantry and Macross Frontier CG robots would finally start looking respectable, but in 2000 this was but a badly executed novelty.

3. Wolf's Rain. You know, I'm halfway tempted to give this a second chance someday, but my first experience of this was not all that good. It is definitely slow, the story seemed very strange with all of its fantasy elements, and to me it isn't as interesting as Watership Down, which one can get something out of.

4. Witch Hunter Robin. Better than Wolf's Rain, but this never really grabbed me either. I get the whole goth atmosphere and such, but I guess that doesn't do much to grab me in and of itself. A bit ironic given my plans to watch Ergo Proxy, but still.

5. Reign: The Conqueror. You know, I don't think it's as bad as some say, and I can actually get around the ridiculous lack of pants. But you know what? While interesting in some regards, it's still weird as hell. It's weirder than Paranoia Agent, and that's pretty damn weird right there. I still remember that "the universe is now revolving around Alexander!" line. To me, it could have stood to be less epic while still being a riveting tale of a man who was larger than life.

......and that's it.

Finally, some dissent:

I'll differ on Astro Boy and Gigantor. To me, I just appreciate that they aired at any hour on Cartoon Network. Yeah, as a part of Adult Swim they didn't make sense, but it was a late hour and it was time that Williams Street could control. In an ideal world they would have aired during the day or even on Toonami, but no. In cases like Bleach and Case Closed, I see AS as basically compensating for Cartoon Network's shortcomings. Not a perfect situation, but so be it. In retrospect, I prefer it to the alternative.

Code Geass offered a lot of giant robot action, albeit probably not as much as Gundam 00 season one. It also offered a fair share of mental intrigue a la Death Note (not to the same degree, but it's there), so I don't think it was too boring to succeed. I think AS in general does not much care to market giant robots, and they certainly didn't help it with the way they kept moving it around the schedule. I get the sense that Geass would have done far better on Ani-Monday. Gurren Lagann might have performed acceptably, but Gundam 00 definitely would have run into at least some of Geass' troubles on the block. At least Bandai got DVD sales out of it despite the mismanagement.

I fell out of Moribito for awhile for a variety of reasons, but then got back in for the second half. I don't know, the story works for me. It's not bad. It's no Champloo or anything like that, but it's not bad. I have the last four episodes on DVR and am going to marathon them when I get home for the holidays. I've seen much worse, and I don't think it really deserves to get panned simply because WS couldn't be bothered to match it with other fresh programming that offered some contrasting excitement.

s-cry-ed was a "dumb" show, no doubt about that, but it had its selling points. On top of all the fighting the background theme of order vs. chaos was handled relatively well--for an action series, that is. Not the best thing on AS by any means, but still better than it should have been.
 
I think they were all great. I prefer variety and randomness, even when I end up somewhat disappointed. I thought that was the point of Adult Swim.
 
Explanation the 3rd

GW, normally I agree with about 90% of what you say, but in this case I cannot. Maybe it's the very nature of my argument (that shows like Moribito should have never aired and them doing so is the fault of a biased executive) makes me seem like an anti-intellectual meathead who eats raw steak and hates thinking. To put it in perspective- I love Monster and thought Tokyo Godfathers was wonderful, but I believe their audience and the Adult Swim audience to be fundamentally incompatible.

DISCLAMER- the following may be a wall of text. I really don't want to repeat my same points, but instead bring something new to the argument.

When this block first started, nearly 10 years ago, there was one anime. Cowboy Bebop. The template. The ads sold the sex appeal, the adult nature, and the old fashioned ultraviolence. And it was good, for a while. No longer would shows need to suffer under Y7 Toonami edits when they didn't need to.

Adult Swim saw an audience and debuted Adult Swim ACTION. Notice- not Adult Swim Drama, and contrary to popular belief, not Adult Swim Anime. Action. It had placeholders, unfortunately, but it also had another successful show in Yu Yu Hakusho, a show that was so popular CN executives had the misbegotten idea to edit it back to Y7 and air it on Toonami. But that's another story. The point is, for a while, we had two popular shows with the promise of more like that. And for a while it seemed like we were going to have that promise fulfilled.

Then somewhere, Kim Manning took over and we got bomb (Kikaider) after bomb (Wolf's Rain) after bomb (Witch Hunter Robin) after bomb. (Paranoia Agent). The really successful shows during this period were the ones like the early days of action, with Inu-Yasha, for all the (sometimes more than justified) flack it got, easily leading the pack.

So why did Kim Manning move away from the Champloo's and IY's in favor of the Paranoia Agents?

Here's a fun factoid- Adult Swim ran a poll on the ASMB years ago- What show do you want to see between Gungrave (which eventually aired on G4), Champloo, and PA? Gungrave won, PA got less than 10% of the vote, but somehow it was the first to air. Gungrave never did.

Kim Manning comes across like an angry parent serving guests food they don't like, and then going "You don't have a choice! This isn't a restaurant!" when viewers snubbed their noses. That's not how TV works. There is no dignity in sinking a block by airing shows no one wants to watch, nor is airing Ikkitousen on a block that once boasted Yu Yu Hakusho as a wonderful success selling out. Airing shows that are like the ones that are more successful or like ones that were successful for others does not fly in the face of what Adult Swim stands for. If anything, Sengoku Basara fits in with Metalocolaypse way better than Moribito does. Ikkitousen and Superjail have more in common than WHR and Superjail. Heck, Godannar and Sealab 2021 fit together much better than Eureka 7 did with viewers.

It's not "they're anime!" It's "one type of show failed and decided to keep going with said type of show". We were promised something, but Kim Manning decided we had to get something else for reasons unknown.
 
GW, normally I agree with about 90% of what you say, but in this case I cannot. Maybe it's the very nature of my argument (that shows like Moribito should have never aired and them doing so is the fault of a biased executive) makes me seem like an anti-intellectual meathead who eats raw steak and hates thinking. To put it in perspective- I love Monster and thought Tokyo Godfathers was wonderful, but I believe their audience and the Adult Swim audience to be fundamentally incompatible.

.


I love Tokyo Godfathers, but is it really your idea of some "artsy" or "challenging" anime? :shrug:
 
Then somewhere, Kim Manning took over and we got bomb (Kikaider) after bomb (Wolf's Rain) after bomb (Witch Hunter Robin) after bomb. (Paranoia Agent). The really successful shows during this period were the ones like the early days of action, with Inu-Yasha, for all the (sometimes more than justified) flack it got, easily leading the pack.

So why did Kim Manning move away from the Champloo's and IY's in favor of the Paranoia Agents?

Here's a fun factoid- Adult Swim ran a poll on the ASMB years ago- What show do you want to see between Gungrave (which eventually aired on G4), Champloo, and PA? Gungrave won, PA got less than 10% of the vote, but somehow it was the first to air. Gungrave never did.

It's not "they're anime!" It's "one type of show failed and decided to keep going with said type of show". We were promised something, but Kim Manning decided we had to get something else for reasons unknown.
With all the stuff they air in Robot Chicken, Family Guy, Metalocalypse, Superjail, and Titan Maximum, they could easily get away with more violent and fanservicey anime.

I'm not saying every anime AS airs should be like the aforesaid. The occasional slower / talky show is OK, but airing so many when it's obvious they don't work to bring in the viewers, then it should be time to try something different, not air more of the same.

Not every action show has to be anime either. A Korgoth or Hellboy series would be awesome.
 
I think AS is done with action. I don't see them really wanting to do anything with it anymore.

But my vote goes to PA. And I kind of liked that show, even though it was the very epitome of why Geneon when bust.
 
I'm not saying every anime AS airs should be like the aforesaid. The occasional slower / talky show is OK, but airing so many when it's obvious they don't work to bring in the viewers, then it should be time to try something different, not air more of the same.

This is pretty much what I think. Airing Paranoia Agent (which IIRC actually DID hit the top 3 occasionally) in between Champloo and S-cry-ed is nothing to complain about, it gives the block some depth and some different. However, airing slow talky shows one after the other is just not what's going to get people to tune in. I'l also defend the Death Note acquistion because while it is a talky show, it has a lot of hype and even a US movie deal.

I'm still just amazed at why [as] won't pick up anymore shounens. Yeah, they aren't "adult," but Bleach IS Saturday night and Naruto Shippuden and One Piece would compliment it greatly. They KNOW what works for the block, but they don't want to spend any more money I guess. Hell, unearthing IY from the 5-6am slot and have it the reruns air with Bleach would be better.
 
I love Tokyo Godfathers, but is it really your idea of some "artsy" or "challenging" anime? :shrug:

Well, no. But it, Serial Experiments Lain, and Perfect Blue are Kon products that I do like which is why I mentioned them. It's not anti-director any more than it is anti-intellectual. It just feels like Kim Manning is going "You want this action show with giant robots and big boobs? Well you should be ashamed! Watch this show instead you meathead chauvanist!"

Any other company would have fired her years ago.
 
Well, no. But it, Serial Experiments Lain, and Perfect Blue are Kon products that I do like which is why I mentioned them. It's not anti-director any more than it is anti-intellectual. It just feels like Kim Manning is going "You want this action show with giant robots and big boobs? Well you should be ashamed! Watch this show instead you meathead chauvanist!"

Any other company would have fired her years ago.


well Manning has his/her tastes & you have yours, and we have gotten giant our fair share of giant robots..Big0. some gundam, E7, geass.

As for wanting to watch a show soley for big boobs, well that does indeed make one a chauvanist. so I don't blame em for not putting ecchi anime on, I mean lots of people think all anime is nothing but cartoon porn as is, we don't need that misunderstanding to grow.:sweat:

personally I would love to see more senien series along the lines of Hellsing or claymore to air on AS...but I don't think that will happen either...I'm just fine with shonen series Like Bleach for now & Moribito was a fun Historical Ficiton series, I don't see why people dis it..yeah its no kenshin..but from as far as Historical Ficiton is concerend..its a heck of alot better then somthing like say..spice & wolf.:sweat: (or as I like to call it, the history of Europian econimics, with nude wolf girl.:anime:)

so yea....
 
Spice and Wolf is about as historical as Gundam.

Why don't we just suggest all the random harems since we're apparently pulling completely different genres to prove our points?
 
Spice and Wolf is about as historical as Gundam.

Why don't we just suggest all the random harems since we're apparently pulling completely different genres to prove our points?


.................................:mad::radda:

ALL RIGHTY THEN!:D

(At least a decent amount of Harem animes have stories.)

well techniaclly anything set in a past era could be conisderd historical ficiton, but I digrese.:p)

I haven't watched some of the shows people consider Bombs..but I don't think AS did all that bad, & its not like AS can't get better shows in the future.:sweat:
 
well Manning has his/her tastes & you have yours, and we have gotten giant our fair share of giant robots..Big0. some gundam, E7, geass.

As for wanting to watch a show soley for big boobs, well that does indeed make one a chauvanist. so I don't blame em for not putting ecchi anime on, I mean lots of people think all anime is nothing but cartoon porn as is, we don't need that misunderstanding to grow.:sweat:
.

What misunderstanding? The anime as porn assumption died years ago. Now people think it's boring melodrama like Ms. Manning loves to air. Does watching anything with sex appeal make one a chauvanist? Maybe there's a big chauvanist crowd that wants to watch AS.

It's Adult Swim. Not "children's swim". And if Metalocolapyse can air, why not Godannar? Why E7?
 
Good stuff

That's a fine post, and fair enough. I don't even disagree that Kim Manning is restricting AS' options too much. Though in AS' defense on Gungrave they probably at least tried to get it only to be outbid by TechTV, which ultimately did air the show.

I suppose what mitigates against all the slow shows is that we also had s-cry-ed, and we had Fullmetal Alchemist, and we had Trigun, and we had FLCL. You see the point. I also look at Ghost in the Shell and Big O and Death Note and see quality series that were nonetheless not action packed much of the time, but were still worth airing. So in a way I think the "action" brand is limiting, especially when AS is inflexible to the point of refusing to air a Gurren Lagann. So to me, it's about variety instead AS picking only one type. Action fans won't be pleased by only slow shows and a pure action fixation would rule out too much quality programming. So the trick is balance. I mean, I'd take Death Note and Moribito over Witch Hunter Robin and Wolf's Rain, but AS had more (and better?) action programming to balance the latter pair back then.
 
What misunderstanding? The anime as porn assumption died years ago. Now people think it's boring melodrama like Ms. Manning loves to air. Does watching anything with sex appeal make one a chauvanist? Maybe there's a big chauvanist crowd that wants to watch AS.

It's Adult Swim. Not "children's swim". And if Metalocolapyse can air, why not Godannar? Why E7?

Code Geass had some fanservice & being an "Adult" does not equal beig obbsessed with sex, I'm not saying that AS can't air Ecchi anime, or shows with "Sex appeal" i'm just saying its not a nessecity. maybe AS is to pickey about the anime shows they choose. But hey, who knows maybe one day Manning will lighten up (or quite, get fired, what ever) and things will get looser.

Plus Metalocolapyse is a US Dark Comedy series, AS aires shows like that becuase well, they made them so they have to. I find some of the anime they've aired refreshing, & Moribito was not a childs series, it was on of the shows on AS i think is truly grown up(Same goes for Parinoia Agent & Champloo). the only somewhat kiddie animes AS has aired is Case Closed (wich as i said was a great series, but really should have been on Toonami.)
 
who knows maybe one day Manning will lighten up (or quite, get fired, what ever) and things will get looser.

Here's hoping. But I don't see ASA outlasting her tenure.

Plus Metalocolapyse is a US Dark Comedy series, AS aires shows like that becuase well, they made them so they have to.
Well they don't have to, they do because it's funny. And I think Adult Swim would be better suited airing shows with that sort of appeal.

Random example. Sure this looks silly as all heck. But let's face it. It's very easy to put Nathan Explosion on that horse.


Moribito was a children's series though. It was because the book series it was based on (which is apparently a flop as well) was targeted towards children by Scholastic, and was meant as a domestic tie-in for said book series in a co-promotional effort that never saw the light of day due to the prior mentioned issues.

BTW- I know I'm attacking Moribito a lot. But to me, it's the symbol of everything wrong with Adult Swim Action. Not just the show itself, but the anti-promotion, the scheduling, the incredible effort spent to get the last episodes just to chuck it aside again when they knew the inevitable result, it's all problematic.

I suppose what mitigates against all the slow shows is that we also had s-cry-ed, and we had Fullmetal Alchemist, and we had Trigun, and we had FLCL. You see the point.
I do and you do have a somewhat valid point. However, look when those shows aired. Most of those shows came early in Adult Swim's lifetime. Heck, Bleach, debuted back in September of 2006 and it can pretty much be considered the last true action show we've gotten. There is a definitive shift in ASA's history from shows like Trigun and Bebop to shows like Paranoia Agent and Moribito.
 
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My guess is, you gotta wonder WHY the higher ups at CN/WS would WANT their good things to fail i.e. ASA/Toonami just to end up replacing it with basically "Bland Shat 101", to reference the Nostalgia Critic. I'd personally like to see the NS tear the people behind decision making for CN a new one, even in just an online video that nobody important might pay attention to.
 
My guess is, you gotta wonder WHY the higher ups at CN/WS would WANT their good things to fail i.e. ASA/Toonami just to end up replacing it with basically "Bland Shat 101", to reference the Nostalgia Critic. I'd personally like to see the NS tear the people behind decision making for CN a new one, even in just an online video that nobody important might pay attention to.

Probably because the "Bland Shat 101" is much more profitable than ASA. Generally speaking, AS's comedies are cheap to produce and bring in much higher ratings. Remember how much their numbers went up when they replaced the anime with comedy on weekdays?
 
Probably because the "Bland Shat 101" is much more profitable than ASA. Generally speaking, AS's comedies are cheap to produce and bring in much higher ratings. Remember how much their numbers went up when they replaced the anime with comedy on weekdays?
Probably one of the few cases in which "Viewers are ignorant" appear to be accurate.
 

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