C&C - Toonami Talkback [4/1]

[KarlOlson]

They could possibly get away with running Higurashi now, but Elfen Lied... no way in heck.

Truthfully, even if they could get the rights and clearance, I wouldn't bother with Elfen Lied. The animation and general direction were weak/very uneven when it dropped relative to it's contemporaries, and I don't feel it's aged well. If you're looking to build a new Toonami, stuff more in an action dramedy rather than a dramatic action/dramatic horror vain would seem wise. In that sense, it would discount Higurashi too, even though it's quality direction over-rides it's sometimes questionable animation. To the extent you'd look at something dramatic, you'd probably look at the Gundam Wing-style of story telling/setting. Really, I think more Outlaw Star/Cowboy Bebop-type stuff would be the best. Strong ensemble casts, fairly episodic flavor. A dose of action with good, engaging characters, some humor that fits the setting and dramatic moments that develop the characters.

 

[The Man in Black]

I'm fairly certain Black Lagoon would be well-received, if it's not already too much of "Yesterday's news" And you know what? I'd potentially recommend Ben-To as a potential hit that many probably haven't looked into. Did that get a dub yet?

 

[KYO'NYUU IMOUTO]

Nobody has Bentou yet (oh, my aching heart). Even so, its content is probably a bit too liberal for [as], though.

 

[The Man in Black]

Nobody has Bentou yet (oh, my aching heart). Even so, its content is probably a bit too liberal for [as], though.

Gotta love the fanservice hatredy.

 

[bla2772]

dont know if this means much but look what steve blum said on twettier......@ERockstar5 @adultswim We're talking about licensing deals and network negotiations. This doesn't happen in weeks. Patience, my friend..........................what he bassically said is there working on deals you dont work on deals if it isnt coming back

 

[firecrouch]

dont know if this means much but look what steve blum said on twettier......@ERockstar5 @adultswim We're talking about licensing deals and network negotiations. This doesn't happen in weeks. Patience, my friend..........................what he bassically said is there working on deals you dont work on deals if it isnt coming back

I think he just said that IF they're working on deals it takes time.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Truthfully, even if they could get the rights and clearance, I wouldn't bother with Elfen Lied. The animation and general direction were weak/very uneven when it dropped relative to it's contemporaries, and I don't feel it's aged well.

You're being too kind as usual Karl. That show is so bloody godawfu thatl its hillarious in a sort over the top self parody frame of mind. You're supposed to be like all horrified and crap but the show is just so rediculous that you can't help but laugh at it.

Outside of the long dead Gustav Klimt, I don't think anything benefited from Elfen Lied. Let us speak no more of it.

 

[AndrewSP]

dont know if this means much but look what steve blum said on twettier......@ERockstar5 @adultswim We're talking about licensing deals and network negotiations. This doesn't happen in weeks. Patience, my friend..........................what he bassically said is there working on deals you dont work on deals if it isnt coming back

He's just telling people to be patient. He followed up with this tweet:

@blumspew
Please guys... Breathe! IF a deal is made for ANY show, these things take time. I love your persistence, but I don't know any more than you

 

[Jtaylor1]

Legendary Heroes and Puella Magi Madoka Magica, would they be two be good candidates for Toonami?

 

[savedbythebell]

The new Lupin series would be perfect minus all the nudity.

 

[Mister Miracle]

I'm not sure about Kekkaishi or Durarara (some people speculated that Kekkaishi was picked up as part of a package deal with Inuyasha Final Act, but that clearly wasn't the case), but I can answer this.

There was a woman at Cartoon Network several years ago (and I feel bad that I can't remember her name) who had been working at the channel for a very long time. In about 2007, she was put in charge of acquisitions for the network. Her first act? She acquired Moribito to air on Toonami, in an effort to give the block some much-needed new blood (this was after TOM 4 was introduced, and ratings were gradually dropping).

Unfortunately, about two weeks after she was given the position, she unexpectedly passed away, leaving Moribito as her only contribution within that brief time. The next person who was put in charge of acquisitions decided to lessen focus on Toonami, so Moribito was shoved at Adult Swim with the mentality of "we paid for it, we don't want it, you do something about it".

It was really a sad situation overall.

Morbitto was a very good anime! It's underrated!

 

[KarlOlson]

You're being too kind as usual Karl. That show is so bloody godawfu thatl its hillarious in a sort over the top self parody frame of mind. You're supposed to be like all horrified and crap but the show is just so rediculous that you can't help but laugh at it.

Outside of the long dead Gustav Klimt, I don't think anything benefited from Elfen Lied. Let us speak no more of it.

Well, the cold lines about EF were when I wrote my review for Toonzone, which absolutely drove some people up the wall because I stuck to my words. So, I can be nice now.

various people asking about madoka

As far as Madoka is concerned, part of me think it'd be the only way you could really justify a magical girl show (which was a Toonami staple) on the AS block, Yes, there are other adult-aimed magical girl series, and some of them are even pretty engaging and feature modern animation (Princess Tutu did a lot of the grimdark stuff 7 or 8 years before Madoka did,) but really, this is much more accessible. It has some good action beats, and it's visually stunning relative to most of it's contemporaries. This is a good place to start from. That said, it seems like something to run after the block has settled in.

I'd frankly run Desert Punk or Onegai Teacher a head of something more cerebral like Madoka. It's much closer to the Tenchi Universe/Outlaw Star formula - action + comedy + service + lovable cast + sci-fi elements. Well, Onegai is light on the action, but Tenchi has some more sedate episodes itself. For that matter, I'd be inclined to option Midori Days even. Lots of action and humor, very likable cast, screwball premise (and really, screwball premise helped sell Tenchi against it's peers at the time.) Keeping things fun, breezy and light with some fast-paced action comedies seems like a good move for a Toonami relaunch.

To extent something has weight, it can't be too front loaded with it. Bebop starts off on fire - lots of action, then gets heavy. Big O is the same way, and for that matter, it's pretty much the rule for almost all of the 26 episode or less pick ups that Toonami made. Banging first episode, then development. That's pretty much key in this relaunch. It needs to wow from the start, and I'm not sure if Madoka really fits that since the reveal doesn't really hit until episode 3, even though I think would be a good long term play, even if you are dealing with the fact that anyone who is really hooked by episode 1 will just stream the rest legally on Crunchyroll.

 

[Sketch]

Doing something that takes me back to the old days of making the Toonami talk back images I edited these.

Fairly realistic and boring

Spoiler

And super happy go fun time

Spoiler

 

[macattack]

I have a rather curious thought:

I'm beginning to think that Thundercats 2011 and Star Wars: TCW may both wind up on an AS Toonami if Toonami winds up getting Saturday to itself (not an impossibility considering how badly Saturdays have been struggling outside of Bleach and Family Guy). I'm thinking the strong ratings of TCW on Star Wars Night and the nostalgia value for Thundercats could wind up placing both shows on a reborn Toonami, albeit in an early slot like where KOTH is airing right now. Then tamer/mainstream anime fare, then edgier stuff like Tiger & Bunny, then older/nostalgia stuff like Outlaw Star, and probably in the 5 a.m. hour Lazzo's classic Astro Boy and Gigantor fanboyism can get a run.

Here, let me show you:

9:00-Thundercats 2011
9:30-Star Wars: The Clone Wars
10:00-Naruto Shippuden or DBZ
10:30-Naruto Shippuden or DBZ
11:00-One Piece or DBZ
11:30-One Piece or DBZ
12:00-Bleach
12:30-Inuyasha: The Final Act/something out of left field
1:00-Tiger & Bunny
1:30-Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood/something out of left field
2:00-Outlaw Star
2:30-Trigun
3:00-Yuyu Hakusho
3:30-The Big O
4:00-Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
4:30-Cowboy Bebop
5:00-Astro Boy
5:30-Gigantor

A debut lineup probably won't look much different than that. That is, if it is the entire night.

Off-topic, I so badly want to commission a picture of TOM 3 welcoming Ichigo and Vash into the Toonami fold at last, surrounded by a bunch of other Toonami characters and SARA.

 

[Space Cadet]

On a black and white card before Robot Chicken, AS showed a chart with the number of #bringbacktoonami tweets/letters. Then at the end, they said that they're still listening.

 

[Sketch]

I have a rather curious thought:

I'm beginning to think that Thundercats 2011 and Star Wars: TCW may both wind up on an AS Toonami if Toonami winds up getting Saturday to itself (not an impossibility considering how badly Saturdays have been struggling outside of Bleach and Family Guy). I'm thinking the strong ratings of TCW on Star Wars Night and the nostalgia value for Thundercats could wind up placing both shows on a reborn Toonami, albeit in an early slot like where KOTH is airing right now. Then tamer/mainstream anime fare, then edgier stuff like Tiger & Bunny, then older/nostalgia stuff like Outlaw Star, and probably in the 5 a.m. hour Lazzo's classic Astro Boy and Gigantor fanboyism can get a run.

Here, let me show you:

9:00-Thundercats 2011
9:30-Star Wars: The Clone Wars
10:00-Naruto Shippuden or DBZ
10:30-Naruto Shippuden or DBZ
11:00-One Piece or DBZ
11:30-One Piece or DBZ
12:00-Bleach
12:30-Inuyasha: The Final Act/something out of left field
1:00-Tiger & Bunny
1:30-Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood/something out of left field
2:00-Outlaw Star
2:30-Trigun
3:00-Yuyu Hakusho
3:30-The Big O
4:00-Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
4:30-Cowboy Bebop
5:00-Astro Boy
5:30-Gigantor

A debut lineup probably won't look much different than that. That is, if it is the entire night.

Off-topic, I so badly want to commission a picture of TOM 3 welcoming Ichigo and Vash into the Toonami fold at last, surrounded by a bunch of other Toonami characters and SARA.

They're not going to spend a bajillion dollars pimping Toonami on AS to the brim. That's a very unreasonable expectation.

That's 9 shows they do not already have lying around.

When was the last time CN or AS or even CN and AS combined added that many shows at once? 3 of those additions have 100+ episodes and 2 of them are currently running with over 200+ episodes. Those two alone would cost a pretty penny don't you think?

Also if they were used I'd very much swap Star Wars and ThunderCats because Star Wars suits the lead slot a lot better. I could see both end up on AS Toonami but maybe not full time until they are cancelled. Star Wars will probably be the only one with premieres come Fall. It may be a year before we see more ThunderCats if we see more at all. If it's not on Toonami then I would recommend moving Star Wars to pre-Adult Swim on Saturday and either encore or premiere DC Nation at 7PM Saturday night as well.

All that space and you still premiere a brand new anime that is not a sequel to an established series in the 1AM hour?

I probably wouldn't be giving you a hard time for this but you did say "A debut lineup probably won't look much different than that." I would say the debut line-up is unlikely to be anywhere near that impressive. They aren't going to suddenly spend that much money on anime when they've made it such a low priority in the past several years.

3 new shows is reasonable but might be expecting a bit too much, 4 or 5 fresh shows with mostly cheap returns is a somewhat reasonable expectation but 9 shows they do not already have? That's bringing a bazooka to a knife fight. They don't have the scratch to pull that off even if they got most of those shows very cheaply. The whole "get new shows for ad time" concept may never come to fruition and even if it did on a full time basis they still wouldn't get 9 shows new or old at the same time.

On a black and white card before Robot Chicken, AS showed a chart with the number of #bringbacktoonami tweets/letters. Then at the end, they said that they're still listening.

Listening is good but giving us an honest confirmation that it is happening would set some minds at ease. We know it takes time to make big changes but that doesn't mean they can't tell us well in advance once they come to their decision.

 

[firecrouch]

Listening is good but giving us an honest confirmation that it is happening would set some minds at ease. We know it takes time to make big changes but that doesn't mean they can't tell us well in advance once they come to their decision.

I dunno, I disagree. Things are probably still very preliminary, do they really wanna spill the beans when nothing's been finalized, like the lineup, the marketting, the timeslots? Also saying "we're still listening" encourages fans to respond more and more and become more rabid about their demands. Teasing goes a much longer way.

Also, it feels very awkward to see a Toonami lineup with "One Piece" and "DBZ" but no "Naruto" or no "Naruto Shippuden".

 

[Sketch]

I dunno, I disagree. Things are probably still very preliminary, do they really wanna spill the beans when nothing's been finalized, like the lineup, the marketting, the timeslots? Also saying "we're still listening" encourages fans to respond more and more and become more rabid about their demands. Teasing goes a much longer way.

Also, it feels very awkward to see a Toonami lineup with "One Piece" and "DBZ" but no "Naruto" or no "Naruto Shippuden".

I don't mean anything about the details just a confirmation that they are going to do it. No time table necessary, no details, just "it's coming". I know they don't have to spell these things out for people but in this particular case it would be a really good idea to make their intentions completely clear and not beat around the bush.

Toonami existed before Naruto, heck both DBZ and One Piece were on Toonami before Naruto.

Naruto was a big part of Toonami but I question if it has any reason to be part of a new Toonami. DBZ has nostalgia, One Piece could use the exposure to help DVD sales. Why does Naruto Shippuden even need a TV airing anymore when it's the 5th most watched show on Hulu and sells without a TV deal?

I see nothing awkward about a Toonami without Naruto. Naruto sure didn't air on 4/1/2012 and if theories are to be believed CN still has the rights to air it and the Toonami stunt folks saw fit to leave it out in favor of more obscure nostalgic series. DeMarco still likes Naruto (and One Piece) but that mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

But to be fair, Mac did include an option for Naruto Shippuden. They can't realistically afford Naruto Shippuden, One Piece and DBZ on top of Bleach. I'd be surprised if they can afford more than maybe two of those long running mainstream shounen. DBZ will put more butts in seats and One Piece has more room for growth. That's my stance on matter. I don't have the expectation that Naruto Shippuden or One Piece will air on Toonami. DBZ only has a shot because it proved it's worth.

Naruto Shippuden remains an option but it's more than fine by me if it never airs on Toonami. Maybe I'd feel otherwise if I still followed Naruto and maybe I'll feel otherwise if I went back to watching it but that's my stance for now.

 

[firecrouch]

"Naruto Shippuden" makes plenty of sense for Toonami simply because it's so popular, certainly more popular than "One Piece", and to an extent it was also under-represented on television as well. Fact is "One Piece" and "Naruto" both currently sell well without being on television, maybe "One Piece" less so but "One Piece' also has a similar reason for not needing to air as "Naruto". Besides, why wouldn't VIZ want to make more money? Both "Naruto Shippuden" and "One Piece" do very well on Hulu, again "Naruto" moreso, but that doesn't beat what television can offer.

As far as seeing Toonami without "Naruto" or "Shipppuden", no it wouldn't feel awkward per say, just awkward if "DBZ" and "One Piece" were to air without it. And on top of not being able to afford it, that's realistic, but what of the chance that next time VIZ and Cartoon Network were to come to some mutual agreement on the licensing rights cost? I mean none of us here really have much to speculate on as far as this goes, we had one story that CArtoon Network wanted more out of "Naruto Shippuden" than what VIZ was offering. Maybe this time around VIZ and FUNimation and the other companies would be more willing to bargain for cheaper broadcasting costs, simply out of desire to just get it on television regardless.

Bottom line? "Naruto Shippuden" makes more sense for Toonami than "One Piece" because past evidence shows it gets more ratings. I'd be fine if it doesn't air either but hey I'm trying to come from what I think is objective.

Also the more you beat around the bush, the more hype you build up. It's not like fans are going to NOT watch Toonami if it comes back if they keep teasing us, quite the opposite I think. Fans will keep getting hungry for updates and are less likely to just forget about the news, not they will at all mind you. Besides, can't mention anything until the ink is dry right?

 

[Sketch]

Why does Naruto Shippuden make more sense than One Piece? This is Toonami on Adult Swim. Naruto up until recently was still being marketed at kids where as One Piece went the strictly older fan route when it left television in 2008. Granted Kai is marketed to kids but DBZ has that power of nostalgia.

From a business stand point Viz has plenty of reason to get Naruto back on TV but what if they are still stuck with DXD? DBZ and OP are currently free agents, Naruto's status is not entirely known but even if Disney did not buy more they probably still have 1-100 or whatever for at least a year or more.

One Piece has a great big fat problem in Toei and that among other things could keep it from airing on Adult Swim.

The substantial difference in this scenario is Toei and that is why it is more vital for One Piece to get a TV deal and grow a larger audience. That could be the difference between getting more One Piece and having the US release get cut short. Naruto is in no real danger because it sells that much better. That's what I mean when I say Shippuden can do without a TV deal. Viz did not hault the dub release because DXD gave it the boot. One Piece will finally get part of season 4 four years after season 3 was taken off the air and we did not get most of season 3 on DVD until what 2 years after it was removed from television? Heck of a long wait. Mind you I'm grateful they redubbed the first 2 seasons but that was a heck of a cliffhanger for anyone who had not already seen the rest of Skypiea.

And let's consider ratings no matter how you slice it those 98 episodes of Shippuden are more like reruns than the 205 episodes of One Piece because they aired more recently and besides about 24-26 of those One Piece episodes they are more dramatically different edited vs. uncensored. But both have the issue of having over 100 episodes already on DVD. I'd still figure more viewers have already seen Shippuden than One Piece so despite Shippuden being more popular I would not be surprised if One Piece actually did better.

The argument is pretty much void if DXD still has Shippuden though.

And while I never believed the theories that Naruto brought Toonami's demise. I still don't want Toonami to be a glorified Naruto premiere slot again.

From a budget stand point, DBZ makes the most sense if they can only get one because it has and will draw a crowd. If they can afford two it could go either way. Maybe from a business stand point Naruto Shippuden has the edge as Naruto was and is more successful but I heavily question if much growth can be made for Shippuden.