The Legend of Korra "Operation Beifong" Talkback [12/5/2014]

[Neo Yi]

Premieres: Friday, December 5th, 2014 at 12:00 PM EST on Nick.com
Encores: Click here for updates

Bolin helps Opal and Lin save the Beifongs from Kuvira; Korra enters the Spirit World.

Previous Talkbacks:
After All These Years
Korra Alone
The Coronation
The Calling
Enemy At The Gates
Battle of Zaofu
Reunion
Remembrances
Beyond the Wilds


You can also discuss general Legend of Korra news in the Korra News and Discussion Thread.


Discuss

 

[Peter Paltridge]

I still haven't watched the previous one. How long do these episodes stay up?

 

[Rick Jones]

I don't think any S4 eps have come down yet, so it might be up at least until the season's over.

 

[zoombie]

My thoughts.

Spoiler

Well what an episode, Kuvira finally lost a battle, didn't think that would happen with these Bai Fongs who didn't listen to Toph and thought with their emotions, which is not something they got from Toph. In the Day Of Black Sun invasion when things were falling apart Toph was the main person to suggest that they retreat. Keeping cool and not doing stupid rash things based on emotion that is something Suyan and her kids didn't get from Toph, and I am not sure Lin fits into this. If the rest of the Bai Fongs were there and they listened to their advice, Team Avatar would have captured as well in that failed invasion. When Opal did say this was their chance to stop Kuvira, I thought like mother, like daughter, this type of thinking is what got the family captured in the first place.

I kind of knew from Book 3, as much as Lin had issues with Suyan, she has just as much issues with Toph. So them talking it out was good. I don't know what to say about Toph the parent, and I am not excuses for her consider it appears Zuko turned out to be a good dad for what he know and we know what he had to deal with, but Toph's issues with her parents effected her parenting, and it seems that family issues continue to this day with Bataar Jr.

So Zhu Li was never on Kuvira's side, that is good for her moral compese and the world, but she better not let Varrick know, Bolin better not tell him either, this is her chance to change him for the better, while siding with Kuvira was too drastic, Varrick needed to be taught a lesson on how he treated her. Who knews Zhu Li never had in her to stand up for herself to Varrick, and Varrick walk all over forever, but his improbe plan in which she had to pretend to side with Kuvira might be the only way she would do what should have done a long time and not taking any more of Varrick's crap. So thanks Kuvira, you might have helped one girl's life improve.

As for the b plot, just when I think Wu is improving, maybe just maybe there is hope for him, he ruins it like Mako says. For a second I thought maybe he can develop enough of a character to become king, but nope. And Raiku pushing for nuclear weapons, I don't know what to say, don't do anything stupid Raiku, trust in your Avatar. As for Korra, perhaps she is going to need Zaheer's help to convince the spirits to help. Maybe Zaheer's role is not done.

As for the battle, so intense, I thought for sure we were going to a prison exchange episode like the Boiling Rock sure everyone got away but they did inprison Mai and Ty Lee, so perhaps I am thinking Su and her family will make it, but Toph and / or Lin would be captured, or Zhu Li would be captured, but nope complete victory for the good guys. Kuvira finally lost and who would thought it would be at the hands at the most emotional hot headed family this season. I thought for sure the way to beat Kuvira is to out smart her, but brute force won in the end, ironic that Bataar Jr was the receiving end of that, because brute force victories are a Natsu Dragnel specialty. Toph must be very respected and feared in the metal bending family, because Kuvira didn't try to stop them, even Kuvira knew don't mess with Toph.

Anyway great episode, 10 / 10 can't wait till next week to see what happens next.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

My thoughts on this episode.

Spoiler

Well I think this is the closest we're going to get to one of those mysteries people have been asking about for ages: Lin's father is... some guy named Kanto who Toph had a thing with that didn't really work out. And considering this references the Bei Fong Metal Bending Academy from the comics, I think we can infer that Su's father is Satoru. Which makes sense with how Zao Fu is set up and how it operates if you read anything about The Rift so... yeah that answers that question. Actually this answered some other questions that people have been asking like "how come we haven't seen Toph take out Kuviera's forces" and the answer is she hasn't really been in fighting shape and prefers to have the younger generation handle things. Which makes sense but... I was really hoping the series was going to have a moment like with the White Lotus society at the end of ATLA and see all the eldery characters show up and do something but guess we won't see that. Shame as I'd love to see an old Zuko/Katara/Toph reunion but guess that isn't going to happen. This also answers more about Jul Lee being a traitor and it was more a "try and sabotage from within" sort of thing. Kind of seemed a bit obvious in this episode but considering how shy and to the side she is I can see actually how it could be overlooked until Kuviera stepping up and revealing her. This one also points out probably why we haven't been seeing spirits lately which I'll talk about a bit later so yeah for that. So yeah a lot of good answers in this one which isn't the only thing but guess I should talk about the negatives here which... honestly aren't really that many. I guess parts of me thought this might of been kind of rushed as I would of liked to see more of the Bei Fongs interacting and some more battle but... I don't know is saying "I wanted to see more" isn't really much of a negative. Heck even the Prince Wu bit which annoying at first with him only coming up with something reasonable to impress Korra was saved by Mako's annoyance and him pointing out everything guys do is to impressive some lady so at least it was funny. So honestly that's what I could find that didn't work about the episode. What did work about it?

Well again though I really did want to see more of it I actually did like the Bei Fong interaction. I saw the trailer for this epiosde and the whole "hey chief" "hi chief" bit and thought that was a lame reunion for these two characters but actually them going into more of their relationship made that whole thing make sense. I like how it's been pointed out Toph's been a really cruddy mom and Lin has such resentment to her behavoir and never even finding out who her father was, and dislikes how non-chalant Toph is about it. And though Toph is still her curmugon/sarcastic old self I like her moments of introspection like trying to come to terms with Lin's hatred or not wanting to get involved anymore and even admitting she's been a lousy mom and hopes that her kids don't hate her. It's actually the right amount of sentiment to show and honestly you can sense a good family connection between the group. Heck I even liked actually showing a little bit of Baatar not being a supposed 2D monster by him wanting to cancel the test when Opal was in danger because yeah he may be fine with the murder of traitors but obviously not with family... granted locking them in cages and forcing them to be part of an empire isn't really showing he's a good person but eh, it was a nice little moment. Same with Toph going in and telling Kuviera "you give metal bending a bad name." I do wish the two had an actual talk and it wasn't just Kuvera starring at her but... to be honest I don't even know exactly what there was to even say there and maybe the silence was more effective then anything else. And though the whole Opal and Bolin relationship is kind of cheesy, I do appreciate that you get a good sense of their selfless nature with Bolin willing to risk his life to say Jul Lee and then Opal going in to try and save him. Though I have to admit, by far my favorite part of this episode was the actual fight scene. To be honest though most of season 4 has been fairly solid... though the last few episodes have been some of the weakest, the action I felt was kind of lacking. Maybe it was to save budget or maybe it was just to build tension but I was awaiting a big confrontation and man did I get it in this episode. Though it was great seeing the citizens of Zao Fu vs the Empire grunts, we have so far the best battle in the season with Su vs Kuviera. Who unlike Korra actually did seem like she was legimatley getting a few hits in even if Kuveria was better then her. Honestly I was really hoping for a Su and Lin tag team vs Kuviera as that would of really actually pushed the 'great uniter" but again what we saw here was great. From the make shift armor to hitting with the car to Su being pwned off. Great stuff there and honestly I do appreciate that it sets up there is going to be a big fight in some form in these upcoming epsiodes. Don't know how exactly it will unfold but after the last few have been lacking it's great to see that style of action again and to have such a great battle with it.


I even liked the sub plot as well with Korra trying to get the spirits for help. As others have pointed out Raiko isn't exactly despite being on our heroes side the greatest guy with him wanting to literally fight fire with fire and I appreciate Korra pointing out getting the spirits on their side would be a lot better. I'm sure that will happen in time but I like how this one showed the spirits instead deciding to head to the spirit world and avoid being slaughtered and pointing out they don't get involved in battles with humans. And that whole thing with Unalaq being an obvious exception and yeah considering their history you could probably see why they'd feel that way. Of course I'm sure we will see spirits show up for the big battle. Maybe like that little spirit Korra befriended in "Korra Alone" will show up to help and that winds up dragging in near every other spirit. Seems like the best direction they'd go in. Or Korra finds some other way to convince them pointing out if Republic City and the vines are destroyed that could wind up hurting the spirit world as well. Hmmm, that kind of reminds me of what happened with Danny reuntiing all the ghosts together to help in the finale of Danny Phantom but I'm sure this will be better handled espeically when you can buy more spirits willing sort in some form to help out. And as per usual there was some good bits of comedy thrown in: Bolin's fanboying severly annoying Toph and the others calling him out on it, Korra seeing the spirits go away in front of her (mostly for the line reading. I'll give props to Janet Varney that normally that kind of joke doesn't work for me, but her read actually did), the awkward looks Bolin and opal were giving when Lin and Toph were arguing, that pat one of the kids of Su gave Bolin when he was saved (hey if we can have les yay moments with Korra and Asami we can have ho yay moments too right?) Su's husband being afraid to leave and later calling Toph mom which annoys her and some other scattered bits.


So yeah overall really solid episode that honestly I really liked a lot more then I thought I would seeing the preview clip for it's exploration of the character interactions and yeah for finally having a big epic fight. Remember though this is the first part of the four part finale so now with Kuviera heading to Republic City with the spirit weapons (likely like the earth queen trying to reclaim old earth nation land for her new earth empire) we should be heading for an epic confrontation. Which will likely be in two weeks from now as next week is the second part of this four part finale and then the last episodes of the show on the 19th. So hoping for great things from this since if the action was good and solid here it should be even more so to end this series right?

 

[SaneMan]

An unexpected full-on victory from the side of our protagonists this time

Also, why do I get the feeling we'll see the spirits pull a Treebeard moment?

 

[cwjakesteel]

I really liked this episode. Loved the action sequences. I was actually hoping Zhu Li was really on Kuvira's side because of how painfully obvious it was that she was never really on Kuvira's side. But I guess this show doesn't want to end with a single tragedy.

So now we have 3 episodes left. Are we going to have a 3 episode special or are we going to have 1 more episode and then a 2 episode special?

 

[Daikun]

I thought Toph was supposed to know everything after all her time with the vines, and yet she kept asking so many questions.

 

[Lerkero]

Well, I thought Zhu Li would be discreet about sabotaging the weapon, but she just blatantly damaged it so that Bataar Jr. could easily diagnose the problem. I guess if they had more time they could have stalled, but it seemed weird that Zhu Li would be obvious about it. Probably could have delayed Kuvira's progress more.

Whatever "spirit weapon" the protagonists use will probably come in the form of a deus ex machina since Korra is terrible at negotiation. I get that the spirits do not want to interfere in human battles, but Korra should have been keeping tight with spirits from the day she opened the portal. Viewers haven't seen much of anything in terms of communication between the larger spirit community and humans. It's gonna be tough to digest whatever solution the writers have for that.

I am still hoping for a spin-off series with ninja earth benders. There is so much potential there, but I doubt Avatar will get the chance to explore more of its world.

Toph's presence was such a tease since she ultimately didn't do much. It was nice for her to be able to connect with Lin and Suyin, but I just wanted to see some cool earth bending. Suyin and Kuvira's fight sort of made up for that, but the long segment of people just throwing rocks was disappointing. I think there could have been a different approach to disabling the weapon. And on one last note: I am hoping that it is shown how Kuvira reacts to what Toph said. Will Kuvira rethink he current aggression or stand strong in her conviction of world dominance?

I thought Toph was supposed to know everything after all her time with the vines, and yet she kept asking so many questions.

I thought this was weird too. Perhaps she could only keep up with a few things? How could she know so much about Zaofu and not know that Opal was dating Bolin, etc.?

 

[Light Lucario]

I thought that this episode was pretty good. It was cool to see Toph again and it figures that Lin would have personal issues with her. Toph cares about her daughters, but obviously wasn't the most nurturing mother figure, which I think was fitting with her character. She wouldn't be that good at being emotional and nurturing. I don't think that necessarily makes her a terrible mother, although she basically admits that at the end of the episode, but we do see how it hurts for her to feel Lin's anger and hatred towards her. I knew that they would patch things up a bit at the end of the episode. It wasn't as forced compared to how Lin made up with her sister mainly due to how they didn't linger on it for a couple of episodes and Toph being in the swamp for awhile has probably cooled her down a bit considering that she mentioned Lin's father for the first time.

Raiku wanting a spirit weapon seemed kind of stupid since that would just end up creating another problem rather than a solution. I almost thought that Wu was going to start developing into an actual leader after he made that suggestion, but then they ruined it by having him make an incredibly stupid and sexist comment like that. I always thought he was annoying before, but now I kind of hate him. Korra trying to get the spirits to help didn't turn out too well. I kind of hope that they don't end up providing some kind of protection for Republic City since getting involved with human wars would be complicated and clearly something they do not want to do. But I wouldn't be surprised if they showed up with some deus ex machina defense against Kuvira's weapon.

It was pretty obvious that Zhu Li was lying from the start. I think that trying to destroy the machine from the inside was a good plan, but keeping the last item she took on her instead of throwing it away or hiding it was really stupid. The rescue and action scenes were quite good. There was a lot of intensity to keep it engaging. Toph being able to come in and help get everyone out was pretty cool and it finally gave the characters a victory over Kuvira. I did like the moment between Toph and Lin, although Bolin ruined it a bit. Overall, this was a pretty good episode.

 

[Alonso Torrejon]

Poor Korra. All that trouble to get help from the spirits and look what happens. If only they had heard her out.

Sounds like Lin's mad at Toph for keeping everything from her, including the fact she had a father the whole time.

The fate of Republic City rests in the heroes' hands and their hands are full! Unless Korra stops Kuvira, who knows what she'll do?

Can't wait to find out what's in store in the last 3 episodes.

 

[cwjakesteel]

Well, I thought Zhu Li would be discreet about sabotaging the weapon, but she just blatantly damaged it so that Bataar Jr. could easily diagnose the problem. I guess if they had more time they could have stalled, but it seemed weird that Zhu Li would be obvious about it. Probably could have delayed Kuvira's progress more.

Whatever "spirit weapon" the protagonists use will probably come in the form of a deus ex machina since Korra is terrible at negotiation. I get that the spirits do not want to interfere in human battles, but Korra should have been keeping tight with spirits from the day she opened the portal. Viewers haven't seen much of anything in terms of communication between the larger spirit community and humans. It's gonna be tough to digest whatever solution the writers have for that.

I am still hoping for a spin-off series with ninja earth benders. There is so much potential there, but I doubt Avatar will get the chance to explore more of its world.

Toph's presence was such a tease since she ultimately didn't do much. It was nice for her to be able to connect with Lin and Suyin, but I just wanted to see some cool earth bending. Suyin and Kuvira's fight sort of made up for that, but the long segment of people just throwing rocks was disappointing. I think there could have been a different approach to disabling the weapon. And on one last note: I am hoping that it is shown how Kuvira reacts to what Toph said. Will Kuvira rethink he current aggression or stand strong in her conviction of world dominance?

I thought this was weird too. Perhaps she could only keep up with a few things? How could she know so much about Zaofu and not know that Opal was dating Bolin, etc.?

I didn't even acknowledge Zhu Li's hiding the missing part right on her person! But now that you mention it, how could Zhu Li, the person who "doesn't make mistakes" according to Bolin, make such a mistake? Anyway, this was clearly the writer's intention to put Zhu Li in need of saving so that she could re-join Varrick and also be the person to warn Republic City of the oncoming invasion...but I was more surprised that Kuvira couldn't tell that Zhu Li was a traitor from the begining. Kuvira is such a skilled metal bender but she can't sense when people are lying like that guy from season 3 that was killed by Zaheer. And her inner circle is really just two people. Her and her husband. For such a strong and demanding leader she really lacks people skills, unlike Azula who is great at that stuff, even getting the whole Dai Li to follow her. Kuvira probably couldn't even expand the inner circle if she tried.

About toph asking too many questions. It was strange considering she admitted that she was keeping an eye on her family...I think that she wasn't watching over them constantly, but just checking on them like how she peers into even strangers' lives through the vines. It is also possible that she might have known about Bolin through the vines, but he was such an insignificant figure to her that she forgot about him while finding out everything else through the vines.

Unfortunately I think that besides comics and maybe 2 or 3 10 minute shorts in the future, this is the end of the Avatar franchise completely. I really do believe that if the first Avatar movie hadn't failed but was at least on par with say, Spider-man, Kung Fu Panda's quality, that Avatar: The last airbender might have grown into an epic trilogy and we would have had a greater Korra, and more to come.

 

[Rhaynebow]

I thought this episode was pretty good. I got spoiled about Zhu Li on Facebook, cursed friends, but I knew that all along. I just wish the reveal could've been more...exciting. We had her fighting tons of mechas with piloting skills we may have never seen her use, saw her betray Varrick with an understandable reasoning, and her 'Big Reveal' as a liar has her hiding a a piece under her shirt?? Kind of anti-climatic. What they should've done was show Zhu Li working with Kuvira more so we could get the impression that she's on her side, making the revelation more jaw-dropping....and, I dunno, have her kick some booty a little bit BEFORE she needs to be rescued.

This season has been one SLOW uphill roller coaster. With 3 episodes left, they may not have time to give us a good buildup without a deus ex machina ending.

 

[Light Lucario]

Poor Korra. All that trouble to get help from the spirits and look what happens. If only they had heard her out.

Honestly, I can't really blame the spirits. Their reasoning for not getting involved in a human war was reasonable. While Korra wouldn't be misusing the power of spirits like what Kuvria is doing, she would still be using spirits as a weapon in a sense, so that would be a major problem for them. I don't think that it was unfair for them to just leave when they just don't want to be used as weapons for either side.

This season has been one SLOW uphill roller coaster. With 3 episodes left, they may not have time to give us a good buildup without a deus ex machina ending.

I agree. The pacing has been so slow that it doesn't really feel like a final season. Maybe it helps that they've already done really grand finales for the last couple of seasons with pretty high stakes and Kuriva, as dangerous as she is even before she got the spirit weapon, seems kind of a downgrade after the Red Lotus. Although, they also spent a lot of time making the Red Lotus ridiculously overpowered. There has been progress made in this season, but it's been a bit slow and that might impact the last few episodes.

 

[ShadowBeast]

Honestly, I can't really blame the spirits. Their reasoning for not getting involved in a human war was reasonable. While Korra wouldn't be misusing the power of spirits like what Kuvria is doing, she would still be using spirits as a weapon in a sense, so that would be a major problem for them. I don't think that it was unfair for them to just leave when they just don't want to be used as weapons for either side.

True but as long as Kuvira is in power the spirits are gonna be used as weapons and if they don't want to join to be used by humans as weapons they should help for the sake stopping Kuvira from using spirits as weapons.

 

[Dudley]

I have a feeling that by the end of the season, the spirits are going to change their mind and help.

 

[Lerkero]

One of the reasons why this season seems slow is because the writers spent WAY too much time bringing Korra down. At the beginning of the season I stated that it would be much better if Korra's disappearance was asynchronous with the plot and that Korra had spent a lot of time training and getting to know herself and the spirits better. Instead, we spent the first episodes of the season watching Korra get defeated and flounder once again. It's not appealing at all.

I can only imagine the smiles on people's faces if Korra would have appeared 4 episodes into the season, met with toph, connected with the spirit vines, and appeared by episode 5 in full fighting shape ready to confront the growing Earth empire. The writers could have used other scenes to build hopelessness in the other characters before Korra showed up again.

At the moment, I am not confident that I will be satisfied by the resolution of this season. I don't believe that Korra can defeat Kuvira and restore balance to the 4 nations.

 

[Light Lucario]

One of the reasons why this season seems slow is because the writers spent WAY too much time bringing Korra down. At the beginning of the season I stated that it would be much better if Korra's disappearance was asynchronous with the plot and that Korra had spent a lot of time training and getting to know herself and the spirits better. Instead, we spent the first episodes of the season watching Korra get defeated and flounder once again. It's not appealing at all.

I can only imagine the smiles on people's faces if Korra would have appeared 4 episodes into the season, met with toph, connected with the spirit vines, and appeared by episode 5 in full fighting shape ready to confront the growing Earth empire. The writers could have used other scenes to build hopelessness in the other characters before Korra showed up again.

At the moment, I am not confident that I will be satisfied by the resolution of this season. I don't believe that Korra can defeat Kuvira and restore balance to the 4 empires.

While that probably did impact on the pacing for this season, I didn't really have a problem with Korra being out of commission for so long and being defeated once she first returned. I liked it mostly because Korra had to work to recover. She wasn't magically healed by a deus ex machina at the last minute like in the first season finale. She had to deal with the emotional consequences of her battle against Zaheer, spend years trying to physically recover and still had lingering psychological damage that she admits that she couldn't completely get over. They could have done a better job to tie it more into the main plot than they did, but I think it was better for them to take as long as they did to make Korra recover since it might have been less satisfying if they resolved her personal issues relatively early on in the season. It wasn't a quick and easy fix and I appreciated that when other events in the series haven't had as much long term consequences on her and the other characters.

I do agree that training and getting to know the spirits would have been good though. After spending years trying to recover, Korra needed to do more training to get back to her fighting form.

 

[cwjakesteel]

While that probably did impact on the pacing for this season, I didn't really have a problem with Korra being out of commission for so long and being defeated once she first returned. I liked it mostly because Korra had to work to recover. She wasn't magically healed by a deus ex machina at the last minute like in the first season finale. She had to deal with the emotional consequences of her battle against Zaheer, spend years trying to physically recover and still had lingering psychological damage that she admits that she couldn't completely get over. They could have done a better job to tie it more into the main plot than they did, but I think it was better for them to take as long as they did to make Korra recover since it might have been less satisfying if they resolved her personal issues relatively early on in the season. It wasn't a quick and easy fix and I appreciated that when other events in the series haven't had as much long term consequences on her and the other characters.

I do agree that training and getting to know the spirits would have been good though. After spending years trying to recover, Korra needed to do more training to get back to her fighting form.

I agree that Korra's recovery would have been less satisfying if it were shortened. Korra's meeting with Zaheer would have been so less satisfying if we didn't get the build up to her being hopelessly distraught. However, I am sure that being satisfied with Korra's recovery has sacrificed being satisfied with what the extra episodes could have been used for.

 

[Dudley]

Concerning Toph and Kanto, you guys have to read this!