Did 4kids really deserve all the hate?

[Dwain345]

4kids was considered to be universally one of the most hated companies in the world back in the 90s and 2000s. Audiences and fans hate this company so much to the point that they want to erase it from their memories. Their worst offenses were their one piece dub with lots of censorship, bad voice acting, the lawsuit with the Yugioh license in which they scammed out companies millions of dollars, and changed music and Turtles Forever. The attitude of the executives at 4kids towards the audience rubbed the salt in the wound even further to the point in which the audiences at all ages said that they have had enough with 4kids. With that was the people’s massive hatred towards 4kids really justified? Did they really deserve all the backlash and hate it got back in the day?

 

[Goldstar!]

I would say that much of the hate for 4Kids TV was due to the fact that it replaced Fox Kids, which held a special place in the hearts of its audience. The thing to keep in mind, however, was that this was 2002, when the broadcast networks were all bowing out of the Saturday morning business. The broadcast networks couldn't compete with the 24/7 cable channels and their kid-vid programming blocks such as Fox Kids and Kids' WB! were hemorrhaging money. The networks were pressured to stop programming their own SatAM shows and began acquiring independent program blocks from various sources.

Myself, I didn't hate the 4Kids block as a whole, but the 4Kids dub of One Piece was indeed terrible. "One the last piece of One Piece?" C'mon!

 

[Dwain345]

would say that much of the hate for 4Kids TV was due to the fact that it replaced Fox Kids, which held a special place in the hearts of its audience. The thing to keep in mind, however, was that this was 2002

But if DiC worked together with Saban, Fox Kids would still be going past September 2002.

 

[Goldstar!]

But if DiC worked together with Saban, Fox Kids would still be going past September 2002.

Maybe. We'll never know for certain, but like I said before, all of the broadcast networks were bowing out of Saturday Morning TV during this era because they were losing their audience to cable/satellite. FOX was no exception. In fact, FOX and WB were among the last networks to still program their own SatAM shows.

 

[Pooky]

On the one hand they had a pretty cynical attitude towards their audience that was sometimes reflected in their work. I can't seem to find anything on this, so apologies if this is misinformation, but I seem to recall that c.2006/07 someone high up in the company caused some outrage when he flatly said something to the effect of "kids don't read", which revealed a particularly bleak mindset.

On the other, much of what they did was witty and creative in its own right. Bear in mind that some American shows like Top Cat are way more popular and beloved in some other countries on the strength of the dubs that have been produced in other markets and specific to that region's culture and humour (this is also true of some live action shows like The Persuaders, which is actually British but never mind). In theory what 4Kids was doing was no different, but as the US was/is already the dominant culture in the world, it plays a little differently.

For what it's worth I know people who aren't into Anime but love Kirby! Right Back at Ya! largely or in part on the strength of the Cajun Dedede and the Paul Lynde-esque Escargoon from the 4Kids dub.

 

[Dwain345]

but I seem to recall that c.2006/07 someone high up in the company caused some outrage when he flatly said something to the effect of "kids don't read", which revealed a particularly bleak mindset.

Al Kahn may have been a successful business man, but a misguided children’s entertainment executive. He also called Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman drunks.

 

[John Pannozzi]

Al Kahn may have been a successful business man, but a misguided children’s entertainment executive. He also called Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman drunks.

Do you have a source for the incident noted in that last sentence?

 

[Dwain345]

Do you have a source for the incident noted in that last sentence?

Here’s a list of quotes from Al Kahn

 

[CastletonSnob]

As much flack as 4Kids gets, a lot of it deserved, they were a LOT of people's first exposure to anime, along with Toonami.

 

[harry580]

As much flack as 4Kids gets, a lot of it deserved, they were a LOT of people's first exposure to anime, along with Toonami.

yeah, not to mention, this is the company that brought the Pokemon anime to the usa

 

[Light Lucario]

yeah, not to mention, this is the company that brought the Pokemon anime to the usa

While I have nostalgic fondness for the 4Kids Pokemon dub as much as the next person, I hesitate to give them that much credit for bringing the anime to the US. Not that it wasn't important or played a role in the initial Pokemon craze, but the Pokemon anime was practically guaranteed to be a hit regardless of what company picked it up at the time.

 

[CNNickFan]

They gave us the One Piece rap, which... isn't bad.

But for the most part, the dubs are cringe, the edits are stupid, and the choice of music is questionable.

 

[Dwain345]

While I have nostalgic fondness for the 4Kids Pokemon dub as much as the next person, I hesitate to give them that much credit for bringing the anime to the US. Not that it wasn't important or played a role in the initial Pokemon craze, but the Pokemon anime was practically guaranteed to be a hit regardless of what company picked it up at the time.

But it wouldn’t have a spectacular pop dub soundtrack for the first two movies.

 

[Golden Geek]

As much as I have grievances with current and past Toonami, you can tell that it's run by people who genuinely care for the medium. They may have pulled out the digital bikinis and painted over guns, but they were doing the bare minimum of editing to give you the shows you wanted, many of which another children's station would have never considered.

4kids, on the other hand, had miss after miss from a man who saw the medium as a formulaic business model - strip the show of all its life and then sell it back to the kids as something cool and different. I was going to link to that list of quotes from Al Kahn if OP hadn't already, which includes such winners as "Manga is dying in Japan" and calling the cast of Magical DoReMi who are eight years old "sexy."

Sonic X actually holds up pretty decent, I'll give them that.

 

[CastletonSnob]

and calling the cast of Magical DoReMi who are eight years old "sexy."

I'm sorry, WHAT?!

 

[Dwain345]

4kids, on the other hand, had miss after miss from a man who saw the medium as a formulaic business model - strip the show of all its life and then sell it back to the kids as something cool and different.

First off, less people watched the Fox Box/4kids tv and CW4KIDS/Toonzai back then which resulted in low rating. Second the Pokemon and Yugioh dubs were hits on Kids WB and Cartoon Network.

 

[Light Lucario]

But it wouldn’t have a spectacular pop dub soundtrack for the first two movies.

That isn't really a bad thing. I liked some of those songs, but not having the dubs full of dated pop music wouldn't have affected how huge the anime was.

First off, less people watched the Fox Box/4kids tv and CW4KIDS/Toonzai back then which resulted in low rating. Second the Pokemon and Yugioh dubs were hits on Kids WB and Cartoon Network.

Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! dubs were hits on Kids' WB, but I think that those were really their only successful anime dubs. Sonic X might also be considered a hit given it was in reruns for so long, but other than that, most of their anime titles in general weren't huge hits or even successful.

 

[Dwain345]

Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! dubs were hits on Kids' WB, but I think that those were really their only successful anime dubs. Sonic X might also be considered a hit given it was in reruns for so long, but other than that, most of their anime titles in general weren't huge hits or even successful.

I think if 4kids stayed on Kids WB back in 2002, then Fox Kids wouldn’t have vanished.

 

[Silverstar]

I think if 4kids stayed on Kids WB back in 2002, then Fox Kids wouldn’t have vanished.

There's little chance that either block would've stuck around beyond the early '00s, given the environment of TV at that time. Blocks like Fox Kids, 4KidsTV and Kids' WB! couldn't compete with 24-hour cable channels, to the point where syndicate owners like Tribune and Sinclair were leaning on these networks to lose the toons in the afternoon because they were hemorrhaging money. I don't think 4Kids staying on Kids' WB! would've changed anything dramatically.

 

[Otakuninja2006]

Really, even if Fox Kids had stayed, there's a high chance that Kids' WB would have aired 4Kids' shows.......or perhaps Nickelodeon or Disney Channel.....