Batman Adventures #12 Talkback (Spoilers)

[Comic Book Boy]

NOOOO!

THIS SERIES CAN'T END NOW....THAT TROPHY ROOM STORY WAS GOLD

GOOOOOLD!!
So sad.

Ty, You gotta make a Graphic Novel with more of this or somthing....even a graphic novel of a whole bunch o' back-up stories....Please!

 

[Dan Slott]

What a long strange trip...

Ty will be the first to tell you-- when it comes to planning out stories, I get WAY too far ahead of myself.

Once the new book was announced, I started planning, plotting, and scheming. I knew I wanted to start off with my Matches arc, set up Eel (Plastic Man) O'Brian, bring back Phantasm, and set up the Red Hood. My second arc? Start up with a Nightwing story (having kept him off panel for a year), and slowly introduce all the Red Hood suspects-- the arc itself (I can't say, because I might like to do it some day in a Bat book-- if they'd ever let me). My third arc? A nifty Arkham thing (not going to get into that either). Fifth? Origin of Plas, Joker vs. Red Hood, and the big secret of the Red Hood revealed at issue #40. Sixth? World's Finest arc. And so on...

Sigh. And THAT is why you don't get too far ahead of yourself.

But back to the issue at hand, the Nightwing issue. I called it first. (See, in the real world, school yard tactics can still work). My original plan? Something I thought was drop dead brilliant! Batman had the Justice League-- Nightwing would have his own team! Now, everyone would THINK it was the Titans (this was before a Teen Titans cartoon was announced), so we'd pull a SWITCH and make it... Nightwing and the Outsiders! Metamorpho was already announced to appear in the JL cartoon-- which was in "our" Bat-Adventures-Universe, so I thought that would be cool. I mean, who'd ever see THAT coming? Nightwing and the Outsiders! Genius!

Well... it was SO brilliant... that DC was (unbeknownst to US in the Bat Adventures office) already planning it for the DCU! Argh!

That's what you get for planning too far ahead!

So, I had to scrap THAT idea! (After all, didn't want to look like a copycat!)

Time for a NEW idea. Hmmm.... Batman has to track a killer to Nightwing's new city. His name? Deathstroke! Once in Bludhaven, Nightwing takes the lead. He's had more experience dealing with Deathstroke AND this is HIS city! Can Batman play second to Nightwing?

Okay. THAT'S pretty cool.

Bam! Teen Titans is announced! Deathstroke is going to be a big character in their new cartoon. And we're not sure if it's set in the BATMAN/JL/BATMAN BEYOND universe. Hmmmm... Time to scrap THAT idea too!

And that's what you get for... Well, you know the rest.

So... Flash forward to planning out my second arc for Bat Adv. There's a villain I need for my first issue (now #14). But Ty wants to use him too. I say, "But I'm using him in #14..." Ty says no one will care if they see him again 2 issues later. And that's when I play the trump card...

"I'll give you Nightwing." I tell him (as if we're trading baseball cards).
"What?" he says.
"Give me that Bat-villain for #14, and I'll give you the Nightwing issue."

And BAM! Cosmic harmony commences.

Ty turns in a stellar script for #12! I get my Bat-Rogue! All is well!

Except now I've got to come up with a 5pg. back-up for the Nightwing issue. You can BET that it's going to have Dick Grayson/Robin in it. I'd been DYING to write a Dick Grayson/Robin story! And if it was a flashback tale-- then I could play around with Dick Grayson/Nightwing TOO! Suddenly, I was stoked. This was gonna be a hoot!

I couldn't STOP coming up with ideas. Since we NEVER saw Dick as a young Robin (the only time young Dick appeared was in the two-part "Robin's Reckoning" episode-- and he HADN'T become Robin yet), AND there had been comments in the show that he HAD been a young Robin, I realized-- he COULD have had the REAL Robin costume (pixie boots and all)! I mean, who WOULDN'T want to see Rick draw THAT?!

On top of THAT, in "Robin's Reckoning" we ONLY saw the Batplane-- NEVER the Batmobile! So there COULD have been an earlier model of THAT too! (In fact, you can see the big Sprang-Batmobile sticking out from under a tarp in the Batcave in a BATMAN BEYOND scene-- so we were TOTALLY playing fair).

The possibilities kept growing and growing. And then I tumbled onto the Trophy Room idea. I ran it by Ty.

And then we had one of those fun conversations that you can ONLY have when you work in comics.

Ty told me that THAT story wouldn't work in continuity. Hadn't we ALREADY seen the story where they fought the Robot Dinosaur? ("Mean Seasons")

And then I said the biggest piece of nonsense to come out of my mouth in years...

"No," I told him, "That's the one where they fought A robot dinosaur, not THE Robot Dinosaur."

And with my rationalization firmly backing me up, I went to work on my favorite 5 page story of the entire run.



ttyl
Dan

(P.S. Do me a favor and pick up a copy of SHE-HULK #1. If it's sold out (a likely scenario), then do me an even BIGGER favor-- talk to the store manager and complain! He needs to re-order! AND up his orders for #2! Thanks!)

 

[Mister Intensity]

Wasn't there a broken down Sprang Batmobile in the episode "The Mechanic" in the flashback that described the origin of the then current Batmobile?

Mister Intensity

 

[Dan Slott]

Anyone know the answer to this one?

Wasn't there a broken down Sprang Batmobile in the episode "The Mechanic" in the flashback that described the origin of the then current Batmobile?

Mister Intensity

If only I could help you out on this one...

But sadly, THE MECHANIC is one of the 8 Batman episodes/appearances I don't have on tape (along with THE CAT AND THE CLAW PT.1, BE A CLOWN, THE FORGOTTEN, THE UNDERDWELLERS, the 2pt. JUSTICE LEAGUE story w/ Amazo, and the STATIC SHOCK/BATMAN BEYOND episode).

Anyone out there have the answer?

 

[Stu]

Indeed it was. Whilst WF doesn't have a pic of it, Batman approaches Carl telling him he needs a new car, whilst the Sprang Batmobile is bumping along outside the road.

Don't recall seeing it in Batman Beyond though...

 

[Tyke]

Thanks, Mr. Slott, that was very interesting! What fantastic ideas...what perfected potential for the book to become greater than it already is.


What a shame we won't see it.

 

[Robin]

Once the new book was announced, I started planning, plotting, and scheming. I knew I wanted to start off with my Matches arc, set up Eel (Plastic Man) O'Brian, bring back Phantasm, and set up the Red Hood. My second arc? Start up with a Nightwing story (having kept him off panel for a year), and slowly introduce all the Red Hood suspects-- the arc itself (I can't say, because I might like to do it some day in a Bat book-- if they'd ever let me). My third arc? A nifty Arkham thing (not going to get into that either). Fifth? Origin of Plas, Joker vs. Red Hood, and the big secret of the Red Hood revealed at issue #40. Sixth? World's Finest arc. And so on...

Wow - you really did plan this series out. I can't believe we're not going to see these ideas, either. A lot of the stuff you have mentioned up there is exactly what I would like to see in this book. I really hope you get on to a Batman title - maybe even "Batman" itself - so you can do these stories. I am dieing to know who The Red Hood is. And Nightwing? I would love to see so much more of him.

Since we NEVER saw Dick as a young Robin (the only time young Dick appeared was in the two-part "Robin's Reckoning" episode-- and he HADN'T become Robin yet), AND there had been comments in the show that he HAD been a young Robin, I realized-- he COULD have had the REAL Robin costume (pixie boots and all)! I mean, who WOULDN'T want to see Rick draw THAT?!

On top of THAT, in "Robin's Reckoning" we ONLY saw the Batplane-- NEVER the Batmobile! So there COULD have been an earlier model of THAT too! (In fact, you can see the big Sprang-Batmobile sticking out from under a tarp in the Batcave in a BATMAN BEYOND scene-- so we were TOTALLY playing fair).

The possibilities kept growing and growing. And then I tumbled onto the Trophy Room idea. I ran it by Ty.

And then we had one of those fun conversations that you can ONLY have when you work in comics.

Ty told me that THAT story wouldn't work in continuity. Hadn't we ALREADY seen the story where they fought the Robot Dinosaur? ("Mean Seasons")

And then I said the biggest piece of nonsense to come out of my mouth in years...

"No," I told him, "That's the one where they fought A robot dinosaur, not THE Robot Dinosaur."

And with my rationalization firmly backing me up, I went to work on my favorite 5 page story of the entire run.

That is one of the coolest conversations I have ever heard. You two must really love the animated universe to be so immersed in it like you are. And I am surprised that Nightwing was a struggle to get ahold of, but what you came up with was brilliant. Not only did he finally lose that damn mullet, but you took such a cool twist on his character.

It's funny, after I read this issue, I read Batman & Robin Adventures #6. On the last page we see Robin willingly put his face on the front page of a tabloid paper. I see that panel, and I instantly think of this story. I know it's not a dead-on connection, but it's a neat coincidence.

 

[Ty the Guy]

It's funny, after I read this issue, I read Batman & Robin Adventures #6. On the last page we see Robin willingly put his face on the front page of a tabloid paper. I see that panel, and I instantly think of this story. I know it's not a dead-on connection, but it's a neat coincidence.

Of the sixty or so issues of Batman Adventures I've worked on over the years....Batman and Robin Adventures #6 is probably my favorite issue of all of them. There are many close seconds, (Mostly Riddler, Two Face, Ra's, Joker and Harley issues) but B&R #6 is still my fave, and all without a costumed villain.

Glad to see people remember that far back...and yes, the fact that Robin faces the cameras at the end of that issue is directly part of the inspiration for New Batman Adventures #12. The character of Dick Grayson was born into a show biz family, and will always have the showman in him IMHO. You noticed a "continuity" that was completely intentional. If the folks at DC ever let me get my hands on Nightwing again, I'd make him the showbiz superhero.

Perhaps it's best if they don't let me near him, then.

Ty the Guy. Also pumping showbiz through his veins.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

Once the new book was announced, I started planning, plotting, and scheming. I knew I wanted to start off with my Matches arc, set up Eel (Plastic Man) O'Brian, bring back Phantasm, and set up the Red Hood. My second arc? Start up with a Nightwing story (having kept him off panel for a year), and slowly introduce all the Red Hood suspects-- the arc itself (I can't say, because I might like to do it some day in a Bat book-- if they'd ever let me). My third arc? A nifty Arkham thing (not going to get into that either). Fifth? Origin of Plas, Joker vs. Red Hood, and the big secret of the Red Hood revealed at issue #40. Sixth? World's Finest arc. And so on...

.....wow.....wow.


...wow! Ow man, how could they cancel this....HOW! Plas. Man! Red Hood! JOKER VS. REDHOOD!!!! .....WORLD's FINEST ARC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It should be a capital crime to end this series.....

 

[Robin]

I think I might have found a little slip-up. I remember when The New Batman Adventures first premiered, it was said that the costume Tim Drake wears is one that every Robin wears early in their career. They wear that, and then eventually "graduate" to the one that Dick Grayson wears. I think it was Bruce Timm who said this when people complained about the design. So, if that is true, then shouldn't the costume Dick Grayson has on in the flashback be the same one as Tim Drake's current?

 

[randomguy]

Hey, no need to be hyper anal-retentive here. The team saw a cool chance to use the old-school Robin costume and took advantage of it. Simple as that.

 

[punkrockgirl]

I think I might have found a little slip-up. I remember when The New Batman Adventures first premiered, it was said that the costume Tim Drake wears is one that every Robin wears early in their career.?

What I remember reading was that Dick only wore the red-legged Tim Drake costume very briefly in his early career. Maybe it was a transitional costume between the classic little one with the shorts and the one we saw in BTAS which he wore during his teens/early 20s. Meaning, Dick probably wore three seperate Robin costumes!

PunkRockGirl

 

[Robin]

What I remember reading was that Dick only wore the red-legged Tim Drake costume very briefly in his early career. Maybe it was a transitional costume between the classic little one with the shorts and the one we saw in BTAS which he wore during his teens/early 20s. Meaning, Dick probably wore three seperate Robin costumes!

That's a pretty good explaination of the suit thing. Whether or not I'm being anal-retentive doesn't matter, I'm just curious about this. Does the creative team has any input on this? They seem to know everything about these cartoons and any comments could be cool. I didn't mean to offend or upset anyone.

 

[Fone Bone]

Batman: Still obessed with the puns?
Nightwing: C'mon you know you love it!

Yay! Nightwing! Yay! No mullet! Yay! Bad puns! Great issue! It was cool seeing the Clock King again. He was a welcome surprise.

I was shocked when the Riddler got stabbed. I love the guy and it seemed he was finally using his quirkiness to help people. I hope he's okay. I don't want him to suffer brain damage.

The Penguin is going down! I can't wait for next issue!

The backup was great too. I loved how Bruce sent Dick the T-Rex. Very touching. Poor Babs. She looked so sad to see Dick go.

I love Nightwing's relationship with the media. It was refreshing to see a superhero being willing to talk to the community. I think Batman was even a little jealous. I hope Nightwing shows up on Justice League Unlimited.

Ty and Dan, I really appreciate all the hard work and planning you put into this book. You poured you heart and soul into it and it shows. Honestly, I see the new The Batman book lasting four years just like the series. I have a feeling in five years or so the demand for a DCAU Batman book will be very great. I would love to see you guys pick up where you left off someday. Never say never.

Best Wishes,
Matt.

Score for this issue: *****.

 

[Robin]

Of the sixty or so issues of Batman Adventures I've worked on over the years....Batman and Robin Adventures #6 is probably my favorite issue of all of them. There are many close seconds, (Mostly Riddler, Two Face, Ra's, Joker and Harley issues) but B&R #6 is still my fave, and all without a costumed villain. Glad to see people remember that far back...and yes, the fact that Robin faces the cameras at the end of that issue is directly part of the inspiration for New Batman Adventures #12. The character of Dick Grayson was born into a show biz family, and will always have the showman in him IMHO. You noticed a "continuity" that was completely intentional. If the folks at DC ever let me get my hands on Nightwing again, I'd make him the showbiz superhero.

I remember all the way back! I still remember Batman Adventures #1. I even have a copy of that issue upstairs, with Batman and The Penguin on the cover. And the price was only $1.25.

I like that you had that in mind throughout the entire run. That made the reading for Batman & Robin Adventures #15 even better. I tend to re-read that issue alot. I just find the fate you wrote or Haley's Circus to be fascinating. Then bringing it back in Batman: Gotham Adventures #6 was another equal surprise. In retro-spect, I'm starting to see little connections here and there. It's neat. Damn I wish this series wasn't ending.

 

[Revelator]

If it matters to any of you guys...
...Rick, Dan and I...always planned to do an issue where Joker and Tim face each other down in the ruins of Arkham and Tim escapes unhurt, and Joker doesn't die, just to hammer the idea home that BB isn't the ONLY future for these characters...(Otherwise Tim wouldn't have been in the series much longer!).

A point which would have been hammered home anyway by keeping Tim in the series. With all due respect, I think that planned issue was a bad, pedantic idea devoted to making a purely schematic and dry point. And compared to what happened in ROTJ it sounds like a much duller story.
I think most fans are aware that Batman Beyond was only a possible future, and they'd have gotten the point anyway had Batman Adventures been allowed to flourish beyond its shut-off date.
And while I applaud you and Slott's determination to proceed from the established BTAS continuity and not feel shackled by the future depicted in BB, I think any animated comics writers out there looking for a genuinely big challenge should consider tackling the aftermath of the flashback scene from ROTJ, which is rich in possibilities (among them, Batman revealing his ecret to Gordon when it came time to ask the Commissioner for help in hushing up the Joker's death and burial). But then again, there will be no opportunity to do so, because the Timm-version Batman's days in comics are numbered.

As for issue #12: top-notch as usual. It's a pleasure to see Clock King--always underutilized in BTAS--work as a useful cog in the plotting machinery, and your conception of Dick Grayson advances upon anything developed in TNBA by making him genuinely stand out from Batman.

I believe that after Justice League ends, a Bruce Timm-model Batman will never again appear in new TV episodes. In other words, the Timm-Dini-Burnett DCAU will cease to exist. This DCAU created a entire world, and the fertility of this world was proved by The Batman Adventures, which managed to create new, vivid stories within a previously established world and continuity; new stories which drew from and sometimes improved upon that continuity.

Batman Adventures, along with flashback scene from ROTJ, proved that there were still many stories waiting to be told within the existing DCAU, and many new sagas waiting to be told that would build upon and elaborate upon the groundwork laid over the past 10 years. Think of Templeton and Slott's comic as a new part of a pre-existing cathedral that is still being added to and expanded. Cathedrals take years to build and assemble--the Timm/Dini/Burnett/Templeton/Slott Batman universe is a beautiful, long-standing cathedral whose ongoing growth and construction is being halted and called off. Change may be good, but when it's not called for out of any legitimate artistic need, one should be righteously irked.

 

[punkrockgirl]

Whether or not I'm being anal-retentive doesn't matter, I'm just curious about this.

I for one don't think you are being "anal-retentive" Robin. Its fun to put all the pieces together and figure out how elements of the storyline fit together!

PunkRockGirl

 

[Nightwing]

Indeed it was. Whilst WF doesn't have a pic of it, Batman approaches Carl telling him he needs a new car, whilst the Sprang Batmobile is bumping along outside the road.

Yeah it was in The Mechanic, but you're sure WF doesn't have a pic of it in the episode reviews section? I have a pic of it and that's exactly where I got it from years ago. It may be on my laptop, and not this computer though, but I'll go spulunking around for it.

EDIT: Yeah it's not up there. I forgot all the old episode screenshots were retaken. But if it isn't up on WF storage somewhere I know I have a pic of it. It's around.

lol, very humorous story about the NW story idea misshaps, Mr. Slott. But hey, you can't sell out the whole planning ahead technique COMPLETELY, right? I mean it has plenty of excellent up-sides! Although my problem with thinking too far ahead is when I do something that will keep me prepared or whatever, I end up forgetting I did it. For example, keeping the stereo jack to my headphones right by the case that my headphones came in. When I re-discover I did it later on, I think, "oooh I see. Hey. Clever idea."

I agree with the Nightwing in the spotlight gig, too. Sure it's weird, but it just fits him somehow. And hey maybe Batman IS a TINY bit jealous or offset in some way since NW seems to have adopted a boyscout trait of Superman.

I think I might have found a little slip-up. I remember when The New Batman Adventures first premiered, it was said that the costume Tim Drake wears is one that every Robin wears early in their career. They wear that, and then eventually "graduate" to the one that Dick Grayson wears. I think it was Bruce Timm who said this when people complained about the design. So, if that is true, then shouldn't the costume Dick Grayson has on in the flashback be the same one as Tim Drake's current?

I can't comment on the validity of the costume history, but I've always seen it as that Tim Drake Animated costume was made should Bruce come across a Robin in the future. You know Bruce, always set and prepared. Besides which, he always had a small part of his heart that missed his days with Dick working by his side as Robin.

If there's anything you'll learn about me over the years, it's I love the direction all these Nightwing stories go in! ALL of them! And Batman Adventures 12 is no exception.

I also agree about the Tim/Joker-ROTJ idea. I mean it sounds interesting, and would be great if there was a unique element to show with the story, but I don't think it's necessary. If someone has trouble accepting or thinking the fact that Batman Beyond is a only a possible yet still a very cool and VALID future both at the same time, all they need is a nice little smack.

 

[Maxie Zeus]

Wound up eating lunch next to the comic book store today. And since it'd been a few months since I'd been in there -- bad Maxie, bad! -- I stopped in to pick up BA issues 10-12.

I haven't got much to say that hasn't been said already about #12 itself. But I'll add this: reading new issues back to back like that really brings out how smooth the title is. It doesn't just work issue-by-issue. It pulls you along from one story to the next like a riptide.

Ty, Dan: You guys are awfully good. You and the artists make it look so easy.

 

[Yojimbo]

Finally got my hands on a copy after camping out at a bookstore after #12 sold out at my local comic book stores. Yes, pretty much what everyone else said, a fantastic issue, probably the best I've read in a while. Can't wait for a trade paperback to come out of this series. Thank you for quinching my Nightwing thirst Ty and Dan. Thank you.