DC Comics Animation - General Animated Feature News & Discussion Thread, Part 8 (Spoilers)

[Frontier]

Exactly. Thrones of Atlantis is basically an Aquaman movie presented through the Justice League while also adapting a storyline from the New 52 .

 

[Srebak]

I have to ask, has there ever been a DC movie that was at least somewhat equivalent to Marvel's "Planet Hulk", or Marvel's "Hulk Vs." movies? I ask because, lately, it feels like Marvel keeps doing things that DC could've done, but didn't.

Planet Hulk is just one of many Marvel stories that handled the subjects of Alien worlds and powerful monarchies rather well, and I can't even think of a film by DC that handled the "spirit" of "The Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow". It's not just, the movies either: Whenever Thor appeared the Marvel shows, his Mythical Norse Background was rather prominent in at least one episode. But Wonder Woman, who comes from a Greek Mythological background, rarely, if ever, gets an episode around her background, and that bothers me.

 

[Yojimbo]

It seems [MENTION=39609]Srebak[/MENTION]'s post at 1:10 pm has vanished so here's what it was

I have to ask, has there ever been a DC movie that was at least somewhat equivalent to Marvel's "Planet Hulk", or Marvel's "Hulk Vs." movies? I ask because, lately, it feels like Marvel keeps doing things that DC could've done, but didn't.

Planet Hulk is just one of many Marvel stories that handled the subjects of Alien worlds and powerful monarchies rather well, and I can't even think of a film by DC that handled the "spirit" of "The Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow". It's not just, the movies either: Whenever Thor appeared the Marvel shows, his Mythical Norse Background was rather prominent in at least one episode. But Wonder Woman, who comes from a Greek Mythological background, rarely, if ever, gets an episode around her background, and that bothers me.

 

[W.C.Reaf]

I have to ask, has there ever been a DC movie that was at least somewhat equivalent to Marvel's "Planet Hulk", or Marvel's "Hulk Vs." movies? I ask because, lately, it feels like Marvel keeps doing things that DC could've done, but didn't.

Planet Hulk is just one of many Marvel stories that handled the subjects of Alien worlds and powerful monarchies rather well, and I can't even think of a film by DC that handled the "spirit" of "The Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow". It's not just, the movies either: Whenever Thor appeared the Marvel shows, his Mythical Norse Background was rather prominent in at least one episode. But Wonder Woman, who comes from a Greek Mythological background, rarely, if ever, gets an episode around her background, and that bothers me.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Planet Hulk and the majority of DC animated movies are adaptations, so what you're asking lies at the feet of the comics not the movies. Surely it comes down to the differences between Marvel and DC, and the different stories they tell.

As for Wonder Woman, her movie and most of her episodes in the Justice League/Unlimited cartoon use the Greek Mythological background. There's multiple episodes that deal with her Amazon background, not to mention Hades, Ares, and other gods that show up or are mentioned through her. Modern DC shows rarely give her an episode, but they haven't ignored any of her background. (At least as far as the comics deal with her and Thor's Mythological backgrounds, which usually means taking the name of something then making everything else up. )

 

[Srebak]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Planet Hulk and the majority of DC animated movies are adaptations, so what you're asking lies at the feet of the comics not the movies. Surely it comes down to the differences between Marvel and DC, and the different stories they tell.

As for Wonder Woman, her movie and most of her episodes in the Justice League/Unlimited cartoon use the Greek Mythological background. There's multiple episodes that deal with her Amazon background, not to mention Hades, Ares, and other gods that show up or are mentioned through her. Modern DC shows rarely give her an episode, but they haven't ignored any of her background. (At least as far as the comics deal with her and Thor's Mythological backgrounds, which usually means taking the name of something then making everything else up. )

I guess, for me, the problem is that while Marvel is pretty straightforward with Thor's Mythological background (they just stick to the Norse tradition of armies, battles and Odin and his pantheon), DC isn't with Wonder Woman's (In Wonder Woman's movie and her episodes in JL/U, the feminist and anti-sexist tones, as well as the issues she has with her mother or anyone else, feel a bit distracting).

This is actually a common problem for me in terms of comparing DC to Marvel these days, the things that Marvel made work in terms of action are kind of overshadowed by something else in DC's shows and movies: Avengers: EMH, for the most part, handled the concept of an alien invasion well and was rather upfront about it, while JL/U always had some sort of subplot to distract from it (Hawkgirl's betrayal). A:EMH and AA also handled the concept of a team of Villains rather well, while a major JL/U episode that dealt with that idea, "The Secret Society", was mainly about the League falling apart, it was distracting, and even the ending didn't feel right or satisfying. Hulk vs. Thor was pretty straight forward with its battles and connection to Norse Mythology, but Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, which had some Greek Mythology mixed in a few scenes, was kind of overshadowed by that argument between the Big Three (which in and of itself was bad thing on its own).

 

[RoryWilliams]

The feminist overtones are pretty integral to Wonder Woman's character.

 

[Srebak]

The feminist overtones are pretty integral to Wonder Woman's character.

Maybe, but they still distract from the Greek Mythology aspect of her character

 

[BreakAbone]

I guess, for me, the problem is that while Marvel is pretty straightforward with Thor's Mythological background (they just stick to the Norse tradition of armies, battles and Odin and his pantheon), DC isn't with Wonder Woman's (In Wonder Woman's movie and her episodes in JL/U, the feminist and anti-sexist tones, as well as the issues she has with her mother or anyone else, feel a bit distracting).

This is actually a common problem for me in terms of comparing DC to Marvel these days, the things that Marvel made work in terms of action are kind of overshadowed by something else in DC's shows and movies: Avengers: EMH, for the most part, handled the concept of an alien invasion well and was rather upfront about it, while JL/U always had some sort of subplot to distract from it (Hawkgirl's betrayal). A:EMH and AA also handled the concept of a team of Villains rather well, while a major JL/U episode that dealt with that idea, "The Secret Society", was mainly about the League falling apart, it was distracting, and even the ending didn't feel right or satisfying. Hulk vs. Thor was pretty straight forward with its battles and connection to Norse Mythology, but Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, which had some Greek Mythology mixed in a few scenes, was kind of overshadowed by that argument between the Big Three (which in and of itself was bad thing on its own).

I don't get what you're complaining about exactly?
That DC Cartoons, have more going on?
Like you said the Invasion of the Thanagarians had Hawkgirl's betrayal at its core, but that helped give it emotional weight for the characters
And I feel like if you wanted a straight alien invasion Secret Origins and even Justice League War would be better comparisons, no?
Or maybe the Superman TAS episode.

And you mention the Secret Society, but ignore the previous two episodes that dealt with those teams, and the entire third season of Justice League Unlimited that dealt with villains teaming up in a meaningful manner.

 

[W.C.Reaf]

I guess, for me, the problem is that while Marvel is pretty straightforward with Thor's Mythological background (they just stick to the Norse tradition of armies, battles and Odin and his pantheon), DC isn't with Wonder Woman's (In Wonder Woman's movie and her episodes in JL/U, the feminist and anti-sexist tones, as well as the issues she has with her mother or anyone else, feel a bit distracting).

They're different characters with different origins and different creation ideas. Thor is (very loosely) based on Norse myth, so his family, setting, villains, and world are informed by that. Wonder Woman however isn't based on any mythological figure but an original creation that has ties to the Amazon myth. So her family, setting, villains, and world are largely original creations with some Greek myth thrown in sometimes. Her story wasn't about Greek myth but about female empowerment, quite explicitly done so from her creator. So expecting her to be like Thor isn't fair since they aren't the same and one is a mythological character while the other isn't.

Her feminist ideology as well as her family issues are a part of her character, not a distraction. Just like Thor's daddy issues, brother problems, and humility, are a part of his character and not a distraction from him hitting things with a hammer. You seem to want her to be just a Greek Thor rather than her own unique character. If that's what you're after try Marvel's Hercules comics.

This is actually a common problem for me in terms of comparing DC to Marvel these days, the things that Marvel made work in terms of action are kind of overshadowed by something else in DC's shows and movies: Avengers: EMH, for the most part, handled the concept of an alien invasion well and was rather upfront about it, while JL/U always had some sort of subplot to distract from it (Hawkgirl's betrayal). A:EMH and AA also handled the concept of a team of Villains rather well, while a major JL/U episode that dealt with that idea, "The Secret Society", was mainly about the League falling apart, it was distracting, and even the ending didn't feel right or satisfying. Hulk vs. Thor was pretty straight forward with its battles and connection to Norse Mythology, but Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, which had some Greek Mythology mixed in a few scenes, was kind of overshadowed by that argument between the Big Three (which in and of itself was bad thing on its own).

So, if I'm reading this right, you're saying DC's problem is that they put in character drama with action rather than just do straightforward action like Marvel? I'm not seeing how that's bad. I'm also fairly sure JL/U and YJ had more episodes and stories with villain groups than AEMH and AA (especially YJ, whose main villains were a large group of organised villains), so I'm not sure how DC hasn't handled villain teams as good as Marvel has.

Hulk vs. Thor was about Hulk beating up Asgard (a place full of gods and Norse mythological figures) while S/B: Apocalypse was about Supergirl figuring out her place in the world with a small part being her training on Themyscira (island of Amazons none of which are Greek mythological figures). I'm not seeing how the two are comparable that way.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Yeah, I have to agree with everyone else here, Srebak. These are some unusual complaints.

Hawkgirl's betrayal in Starcrossed is not a 'distraction'. It is the entire foundation of the story, that without it would be nothing more than a mindless, action-packed 60 minutes. I'd rather take that story's drama, emotional weight and tragic consequences over some flimsy plot where the good guys just beat up some bad aliens.

Action should never come before good character development.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Maybe, but they still distract from the Greek Mythology aspect of her character

I'm not sure this is the right way to look at it. Yes, her feminist tones "distract" from the Greek myth aspect, but that's because you can't give them both equal attention at all times.

On the other hand, I have some sympathy for the general sentiment. I don't think the feminism aspect of Wonder Woman's character in DCAU was particularly interesting, so I'd understand why'd you want to see less of that and more of the Greek stuff.

 

[Yojimbo]

Finally able to get to page 4.

It will be interesting to see how they will go forward with Wonder Woman in this new DCU continuity since in addition I'm under the belief that her origins and the scope of her world changes a bit in the New 52 comics. She was mostly all-business in War but I suppose there was a bit of feminism in her empowerment comment following the protest leader's admission. I don't know. I doubt they'll get into much of it in these movies and focus more on her beating the snot out of bad guys.

 

[BreakAbone]

So do we have any hints/rumors of what is coming after Aquaman?

 

[RoryWilliams]

Again I'm confused as to why people are wishing they'd ditch the feminist angle for Wonder Woman. That's like asking Batman to not care about crime or Superman to not want to protect people. It's been an integral part of her character since the 1940's.

 

[mrbean1500]

So do we have any hints/rumors of what is coming after Aquaman?

I think they'll reveal it during SDCC

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

We can all assume that Batman will have a starring feature next year alongside Justice League: Throne Of Atlantis... no doubt continuing Damian's story, but it's the third movie I'm curious about.

Just how out there will WB let Tucker get?

 

[Yojimbo]

Just how out there will WB let Tucker get?

I was thinking about this the other day and I wondered the opposite. For the third stand alone movie, why not make one that doesn't really push it with the PG-13 rating (or in other words, one that pushes it with the PG rating). It's going to get farcical at some point with the type of blood and violence. In Son of Batman, Damian's fights with Ubu and Deathstroke got pretty ridiculous, imo.

Or a movie with something along the lines the content of Mask of Phantasm or Sub-Zero. Even All-Star Superman was PG. It seems like at every con, Tucker gets asked if he could make a Batman Beyond, Young Justice or The Brave and The Bold movie.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

For the third DC animated movie of 2015, we might get an Elsewheres story like "Gotham by Gaslight" or "Red Son", but I'm hoping for something different like:- A Shazam! movie based on Jeff Smith's miniseries- A Teen Titans movie based on, if not "The Judas Contract" then maybe "Games".- "Captain Carrot" anyone?Someone was speculating about a YJ/TTG crossover, but that seems unlikely--especially considering how different the two shows are from one another.

 

[AQVXZ11]

I'd love a YJ movie that ties up the Light/Darkseid plotline. But seeing as that's not going to happen I'd like to see something like Kingdom Come (they don't have to try and capture Alex Ross's art style, for goodness sake). Hmm...I'd be up for anything unless it's ANOTHER Batman standalone. I really hope we only get one of those per year. I hope we get something Teen Titans related soon. I'd bet on seeing Red Son at some point, probably Killing Joke and Hush too. But does anyone have any idea about how the Justice League and Batman movies sync up? If they take place in the same universe and if they are trying to follow a chronological order, how are we on the fourth Robin when Batman literally just joined the Justice League? It makes no sense. I wish they'd explain.

 

[Yojimbo]

Yeah, they've been hinting at Elseworlds and Vertigo titles as a possibility.

But does anyone have any idea about how the Justice League and Batman movies sync up? If they take place in the same universe and if they are trying to follow a chronological order, how are we on the fourth Robin when Batman literally just joined the Justice League? It makes no sense. I wish they'd explain.

That's just it. There's only been 2 Robins - Dick Grayson and Damian Wayne. At Wonder Con, Mr. Tucker did relent to saying 'maybe' to introducing Tim Drake in the future. I read in the New 52, Drake was more an ally than a direct protege of Batman - so they could introduce him as Red Robin off the bat. I also wonder if there's a Batgirl yet. I think it'd be cool if they got Jewel Staite to voice her.

It's speculative at best, but you see those 3 Batsuits in the display case in Son of Batman. He's been operating in secret for years way before the Justice League was formed. And it's implied he worked with Commissioner Gordon in secret for years since he was surprised Batman had another Robin - and in the events of Son of Batman we see the progression of JL: War. Batman is openly working with Gordon and the police. The police are no longer chasing and shooting at him like in War. In the least, I would guess it's been a couple weeks between War and Son of Batman. The only other connective tissue I can think of is the Batsuit is pretty much the same for both movies. The one in SoB looks a bit tweaked. And of course, Jason O'Mara and the crew saying so in interviews. So we're in a universe where Batman and Robin were the first heroes (so far) and the others only debuted recently before the events of War. In Justice League: War's "Deconstructing War" feature, Jay Oliva notes he felt it's been Hal's first 6 months as a Green Lantern.

But I get what you mean. I as well hope someone asks the panel at SDCC about how the movies sync up, chronology, and the like to get a more definite answer.