DCAU Fan Theories?

[Raider969]

I don't know if any of the creators or writers of the DCAU confirmed this, but I do know it is implied.

The theory that Agent West from The Zeta Project is the son or grandson of Wally West. They both have the same last name, voice actor, hair color, and personality.

 

[Fone Bone]

I don't know if any of the creators or writers of the DCAU confirmed this, but I do know it is implied.

The theory that Agent West from The Zeta Project is the son or grandson of Wally West. They both have the same last name, voice actor, hair color, and personality.

It's a popular fan theory, but as I said, it's an actual coincidence. Rosenbaum was cast as Agent West before he was cast in Justice League. It's the hugest coincidence ever both DCAU characters have the same voice, last name, and hair color. But it's a coincidence. And the best fan theory ever!

"I don't believe in coincidence."

-Batman, Justice League "Starcrossed"

"Coincidence is like science. It exists whether you believe in it or not."

-Gilda, Gilda And Meek.

 

[#TeamMike]

Here's another one. The divorce between Terry's parents was a result of Warren suspecting his wife of having an affair (i.e. why Terry and his brother have black hair and blue eyes despite their parents being red heads).

 

[Fone Bone]

Here's another one. The divorce between Terry's parents was a result of Warren suspecting his wife of having an affair (i.e. why Terry and his brother have black hair and blue eyes despite their parents being red heads).

Oooh, that's a good one.

 

[Yojimbo]

I think I remember fans theorizing Green Lantern in the Batman Beyond era was originally one of the children who lived at Nanda Parbat before he got the ring.

 

[Heeroyuy_Batman]

I think that when Flash got Brainiac off from Lex Luthor that parts of Brainiac went through the Speed Force into the Multiverse perhaps leading to a crisis.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I can't speak for Scarecrow, but I always suspected that "Riddler's Reform" occurred immediately after "Trial." The reason that the Riddler didn't speak was because he was already being paroled and didn't want to incriminate himself further. Besides, he already knew that it wasn't Batman who made him what he is, but Daniel Mockridge.

Actually, thinking on it further, it might make more sense for "Trial" to take place after "Riddler's Reform." The newspaper headline at the beginning says that the Riddler was released after he's granted time off for good behavior, and that sounds more like a release from prison than a mental asylum. (CAN you get released from an asylum for good behavior?) "Riddler's Reform" is the first time the Riddler is shown being sent to Arkham at the end of an episode, IIRC. He escapes at the end of "If You're So Smart..." and he's in a catatonic state at the end of "What Is Reality?", so it's unclear what happens to him after that.

Quite frankly, ordering the second season episodes of BTAS can get a little tricky, since we know that there aren't any escapes from Arkham during Lyle Bolton's tenure as chief of security there until the Scarecrow escapes shortly before the beginning of "Trial." So any episodes that feature someone escaping from Arkham have to go either before Bolton was hired or after he was fired. (Obviously, things like Poison Ivy completing her rehabilitation six months before "House and Garden," Harley being released into Batman's custody in "Harlequinade," or Harley being released herself in "Harley's Holiday" wouldn't count towards that.)

BTW, this reminds me of another fan theory I have: Lyle Bolton was hired at Arkham in reaction to the mass uprising of "Trial." After that experience, Batman would want to make sure that Arkham had much stronger security than it had in the past. Unfortunately, Bolton's mental instability made Bruce's plan backfire on him.

 

[Karkull]

Actually, thinking on it further, it might make more sense for "Trial" to take place after "Riddler's Reform." The newspaper headline at the beginning says that the Riddler was released after he's granted time off for good behavior, and that sounds more like a release from prison than a mental asylum. (CAN you get released from an asylum for good behavior?) "Riddler's Reform" is the first time the Riddler is shown being sent to Arkham at the end of an episode, IIRC. He escapes at the end of "If You're So Smart..." and he's in a catatonic state at the end of "What Is Reality?", so it's unclear what happens to him after that.

Perhaps. But remember: in "Trial" Janet Van Dorn observes that, while in Arkham, the Joker allegedly "finked" on Harley after her escape in an attempt to get time off for good behavior. In real life, asylums don't work like that. In Gotham, who knows?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Perhaps. But remember: in "Trial" Janet Van Dorn observes that, while in Arkham, the Joker allegedly "finked" on Harley after her escape in an attempt to get time off for good behavior. In real life, asylums don't work like that. In Gotham, who knows?

Yeah, it's weird. I guess the writers just forgot that Arkham wasn't a prison.

 

[Karkull]

Here's a fan theory I forgot I had: Justice League's "Maid of Honor" occurs shortly after the events of Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman. If you recall, Batwoman featured a plot by Rupert Thorne, Carlton Duquesne, and Rupert Thorne selling weaponry to Kasnia. I suspect that the three gangsters were actually selling weapons to Vandal Savage to facilitate his attempt at world domination through his affiliation with Kasnia's royal family. Batman's presence in Europe in "Maid of Honor" was merely him following up on a case that started in Gotham.

On a final note, remember that Batwoman was released on video on October 21, 2003, while "Maid of Honor" debuted on October 18, 2003.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I was recently rewatching the Watchtower Database's video about Two-Face, and it occurred to me that my comment there is basically my Harvey Dent headcanon. Here's the video if you haven't seen it:




And here's my comment reconciling two DCAU comic book stories featuring Two-Face, Paul Dini's "Two-Timer" from 1995 and Bruce Timm's "Two of a Kind" from 1996:

I don't think there's anything incompatible in these stories.

The events of the BTAS episode "Second Chance" happen. Harvey goes back to Arkham. He makes progress, and they're planning to have his restorative surgery once again.

The Joker plays his mind games with Harvey in the Batman and Robin Adventures comic book story "Two-Timer," Grace ends her relationship with Harvey, and Harvey goes back into Arkham. Harvey again makes progress, and as he's now a single man once again, he's free to begin a relationship with his plastic surgeon Dr. Marilyn Crane. (Even though a doctor getting romantic with someone she's treating is a really, REALLY bad idea).

Harvey has the surgery. He's released from Arkham, and the events of the Batman Black and White story "Two of a Kind" occur. Harvey relapses -- Possibly even worse than before -- and he's now in the condition we see him in for the revamp episodes. (My personal feeling is that after the additional damage he does to his face at the end of "Two of a Kind," Harvey's disfigurement is now beyond the ability of plastic surgery to repair, but that's just my personal headcanon and never stated on the show or in the comics.) And, when you factor in Two-Face's last BTAS episode, "Judgment Day," he's now developed an ADDITIONAL personality to contend with.

So yeah, despite incremental progress and isolated moments where it looks like he'll make a full physical and mental recovery, Harvey just gets worse and worse over time. One step forward, two steps back.

 

[Karkull]

Aresia is from Kasnia. Call it a hunch. Also, perhaps her benefactor who got her off of Themyscira (and supplied her with materials on germ warfare) was Ares himself. That would explain why she appears to be named after the God of War.

Here's one that I cannot prove, but remember in "Twilight" how Brainiac revealed that he wanted Superman for his DNA, which would allow him to use it to create a biological body for the artificial intelligence? I suspect that this story arc, which began in "Stolen Memories" on STAS when Brainiac offered to partner with Kal-El, was plotted out back during the Superman show, but was not used until Justice League.

 

[Yojimbo]

Aresia is from Kasnia. Call it a hunch. Also, perhaps her benefactor who got her off of Themyscira (and supplied her with materials on germ warfare) was Ares himself. That would explain why she appears to be named after the God of War.

I thought so, too, but the only thing is Ares is male and Aresia is anti-men. But then it's right there in her name! I wondered off and on if Ares was involved or perhaps Eris or Enyo. It was a weird bit left vague for sure.

Here's one that I cannot prove, but remember in "Twilight" how Brainiac revealed that he wanted Superman for his DNA, which would allow him to use it to create a biological body for the artificial intelligence? I suspect that this story arc, which began in "Stolen Memories" on STAS when Brainiac offered to partner with Kal-El, was plotted out back during the Superman show, but was not used until Justice League.

It does make you wonder who's genetic material he did acquire that later led to descendants like Brainiac-5.

 

[Karkull]

There’s a difference between human men and male presenting deities. I’m pretty sure the Amazons still venerate Zeus, Hephaestus, and the like. Aresia can hate men and still find patronage with Ares. If anything, he’d see her campaign as just another war.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Here's one that I cannot prove, but remember in "Twilight" how Brainiac revealed that he wanted Superman for his DNA, which would allow him to use it to create a biological body for the artificial intelligence? I suspect that this story arc, which began in "Stolen Memories" on STAS when Brainiac offered to partner with Kal-El, was plotted out back during the Superman show, but was not used until Justice League.

That sounds more like serendipity than intentional foreshadowing to me (especially since STAS story editor Alan Burnett wasn't involved with Justice League), but neat theory!

This would be a good question for Rich Fogel, since he's the credited writer on both "Stolen Memories" and "Twilight." I'll ask him & see what he says.

 

[Fone Bone]

That sounds more like serendipity than intentional foreshadowing to me (especially since STAS story editor Alan Burnett wasn't involved with Justice League), but neat theory!

I agree with you. Good writers can find an opening or angle like that and seize on it. Sometimes the stuff that fits best in hindsight was spur of the moment.

 

[Yojimbo]

There’s a difference between human men and male presenting deities. I’m pretty sure the Amazons still venerate Zeus, Hephaestus, and the like. Aresia can hate men and still find patronage with Ares. If anything, he’d see her campaign as just another war.

I suppose. Hephaestus did make the armor for Hippolyta after all. I'm hoping they get Stan Berkowitz for Fury on the JL Revisited podcast and pick his brain about it.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

This would be a good question for Rich Fogel, since he's the credited writer on both "Stolen Memories" and "Twilight." I'll ask him & see what he says.

Update: I messaged Rich & he sent me a response. Here's what he said:

Hey, John!

Interesting theory. But we were not thinking about Brainiac wanting to be a “real boy” during “Stolen Memories”. The idea of Brainiac needing a new body was introduced in “Ghost in the Machine” which was inspired by the Julie Christie movie “The Demon Seed”. By the time Justice League rolled around, I pitched Bruce Timm the idea of a Brainiac/Darkseid story in which Superman and the Justice League must decide whether or not to save Apokolips when it is threatened by Brainiac. For a number of reasons, Bruce was reluctant to mix Fourth World mythology with a regular Superman villain. So, we needed to up the ante. The idea that he’d want Superman’s DNA seemed logical, given what we had done with Brainiac up to that point.

As with many stories, it was always a process of taking what we already knew about a villain like Brainiac and finding a new wrinkle that would make for a fresh and compelling episode. In this case, the idea was so compelling that we just had to do it!

Hope this helps!

Best,
Rich

 

[Ed Nygma]

And here's my comment reconciling two DCAU comic book stories featuring Two-Face, Paul Dini's "Two-Timer" from 1995 and Bruce Timm's "Two of a Kind" from 1996:

I don't think there's anything incompatible in these stories.

The events of the BTAS episode "Second Chance" happen. Harvey goes back to Arkham. He makes progress, and they're planning to have his restorative surgery once again.

The Joker plays his mind games with Harvey in the Batman and Robin Adventures comic book story "Two-Timer," Grace ends her relationship with Harvey, and Harvey goes back into Arkham. Harvey again makes progress, and as he's now a single man once again, he's free to begin a relationship with his plastic surgeon Dr. Marilyn Crane. (Even though a doctor getting romantic with someone she's treating is a really, REALLY bad idea).

Harvey has the surgery. He's released from Arkham, and the events of the Batman Black and White story "Two of a Kind" occur. Harvey relapses -- Possibly even worse than before -- and he's now in the condition we see him in for the revamp episodes. (My personal feeling is that after the additional damage he does to his face at the end of "Two of a Kind," Harvey's disfigurement is now beyond the ability of plastic surgery to repair, but that's just my personal headcanon and never stated on the show or in the comics.) And, when you factor in Two-Face's last BTAS episode, "Judgment Day," he's now developed an ADDITIONAL personality to contend with.

So yeah, despite incremental progress and isolated moments where it looks like he'll make a full physical and mental recovery, Harvey just gets worse and worse over time. One step forward, two steps back.

I kind of assumed that was the actual canon for that issue, since they always seem to include it in Dini/Timm collections and Bruce refers to Harvey as his friend. I'm sure that's the case now!

My own head canon for Two Face in the DCAU- the one notable omission from Batman Beyond in terms of finding out his fate- is that sometime after the events of TNBA, Harvey and Batman have a final battle where he finds out Bruce and Batman are one and the same. Either his mind snaps for good or he dies as a result, yelling "you pretended to be my friend; but YOU were the two faced one after all!!" Thus leaving Bruce with a megaton of guilt and setting him on the path to becoming bitter Old Man Wayne, having ruined the lives of quite literally every friend and loved one he had at that point.

But the optimist in me wants to think that after some scenario like that happened, he and Bruce were able to become friends again and put aside their differences, and Harvey was able to heal his psyche and live the rest of his life in peace. I don't *think* that's what happened- the show is a tragedy that always ends badly for the villains, and Old Bruce does decapitate that Two Face robot in Beyond- but I'd like to think that he was able to conquer his demons after having such a sad and painful life.

 

[Karkull]

Thanks for the quote, JonnyQuest037! Funny that Fogel mentioned Demon Seed in regard to "Ghost in the Machine," because I definitely got those vibes from "Twilight." It just seemed a little too serendipitous for Brainiac to suddenly want the son of Jor-El around as a pet.

I've heard Bruce Timm's reservations before about having Darkseid and Brainiac in "Twilight," but I think it was the right choice. After woefully underrepresenting the Man of Steel in Season One, we needed a strong Superman episode, and "Twilight" delivered in spades.