Election Day 2012 LIVE Talkback (Please Read Rules Before Posting)!

[MDawg]

This stereotyping is all a desperate attempt to avoid self-reflection and think about where one went wrong, and it's especially telling when you hear it from pundits who have been misleading their audiences.

Yeah, it was pretty great seeing Karl Rove pitch a massive hissyfit on Fox News on election night and now his 10 or so donors who made up his scam superPAC are out for blood. Probably the best thing to come out of Citizens United.

 

[Shawn Hopkins]

Rachel Maddow lays some hard, cold truth upside yo head. If you're going to watch one post election reaction, watch this one.

[video=youtube;SVwXA7sHUlE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVwXA7sHUlE&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[wonderfly]

Yes, because Fox News isn't their official mouthpiece that tells people what they should think.

Fox News is only for those who have cable. Many of the nation (myself included) still live on antenna only. I want to be able to come home for an evening broadcast of the news and not be bombarded with a liberal version of the news. I still like my idea of a national hour long broadcast of the news, the first 30 minutes liberal, the last 30 minutes conservative.

But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about when a reporter asks "So when you said that you were against the contraception mandate, that meant you want women kept in the kitchen, right?", I want the Republican candidate to fight back and say "If you ever twist my words like that again, I'll ban you from the White House" or "I'll break your kneecaps" or something like that. Just kidding on that last part...mostly.

You think Gingrich helped himself get better coverage when he went after John King? No way.

He won South Carolina going off the strength of his performance at that debate. It certainly got him better coverage. Unfortunately for Newt, Romney bought Florida by carpet bombing it into the stone age with an anti-Newt advertisement campaign. Newt had already shot himself though by failing to get registered on the ballot in several states, but yes, confronting John King helped him.

So........If none of that stuff happens, will you begrudgingly admit Barack is OK?

Not really. Israel and Iran are going to do their thing regardless of Obama. If Republicans fail to explore impeachment, it still doesn't change that Obama made a major foreign policy mistake with the Benghazi incident. And if the economy doesn't tank after Obamacare is implemented, then I'll still complain about the mandate part of the bill.

 

[Shawn Hopkins]

Fox News is only for those who have cable. Many of the nation (myself included) still live on antenna only. I want to be able to come home for an evening broadcast of the news and not be bombarded with a liberal version of the news. I still like my idea of a national hour long broadcast of the news, the first 30 minutes liberal, the last 30 minutes conservative.

But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about when a reporter asks "So when you said that you were against the contraception mandate, that meant you want women kept in the kitchen, right?", I want the Republican candidate to fight back and say "If you ever twist my words like that again, I'll ban you from the White House" or "I'll break your kneecaps" or something like that. Just kidding on that last part...mostly.



He won South Carolina going off the strength of his performance at that debate. It certainly got him better coverage. Unfortunately for Newt, Romney bought Florida by carpet bombing it into the stone age with an anti-Newt advertisement campaign. Newt had already shot himself though by failing to get registered on the ballot in several states, but yes, confronting John King helped him.



Not really. Israel and Iran are going to do their thing regardless of Obama. If Republicans fail to explore impeachment, it still doesn't change that Obama made a major foreign policy mistake with the Benghazi incident. And if the economy doesn't tank after Obamacare is implemented, then I'll still complain about the mandate part of the bill.

So you're saying in advance you'll never, ever give him credit for anything? That's harsh. And that's why politics in America are so deranged.

Gingrich might have made you feel better by jumping on John King for daring to ask him a question he didn't like, but he made himself look bad by appearing to have something to hide and by helping to keep a damaging story about himself in the press instead of defusing it. And he damaged his relationship with the press, which guaranteed him worse coverage. Gingrich never had a chance of becoming the candidate, but he did himself no favors there.

You have to understand that politicians and press have a symbiotic relationship. They need the press just as much as the press needs something to cover. Bullying, trying to push around, and trying to snow over the press just turns it against you, makes it more skeptical of you, and makes it investigate you harder.

Republicans need to get over this "media out to git me" lie that they keep trying to spread. The main reason they get worse coverage is that they are less honest with the press and hold it at arm's length. Liberal bias doesn't play anymore either, not when the most popular news station is Fox News.

Look, if you want a case in point, look at Conservative boogeywoman Candy Crowley. Obama treated her like a pal. Romney treated her like a servant who dared to question her betters. Who came out on top in that exchange?

 

[The Landstander]

Been busy the past few days. Sure you've been waiting with bated breath.

Rachel Maddow lays some hard, cold truth upside yo head. If you're going to watch one post election reaction, watch this one.

Literally came here to post that, heh.

Scattered thoughts:
- Romney's concession was honorable, uniting, and humble.
- One of the big winners: math, specifically statistics. Nate Silver basically nailed it; people who knew what they're talking about regarding polling were more or less accurate. The biggest error might've been that North Dakota and Montana were generally considered to lean towards the GOP. The fact that Romney was shellshocked at his loss and was completely unaware he would lose, to the point where I'm starting to believe the "didn't write a concession speech" story is actually true, is fairly amazing to me - either the candidate was kept away from people who knew what the polls were saying (possible), or the people in Romney's camp really believed the unskew the polls, MSM conspiracy narrative. I honestly hope it's just the former, because the latter is a scary thought.
- Most notable about the win: 18-to-29 year olds went for Obama only slightly less hard, and made up more of the electorate than 2008, and minority voters went harder and also made up more of the electorate than 2008. The Obama coalition held.
- The Senate wins are downright impressive. Even in June, "GOP takes the Senate" was an established, entirely believable narrative. Instead, the battlegrounds shifted from Ohio and Florida to places like Montana and Nevada. The only real GOP wins were Arizona and Nevada - the former shouldn't have even been a race, and in the latter a much better candidate squeaked out a single point victory. The Democratic Senate majority also got a lot more progressive - moderate non-entity Herb Kohl gets replaced by Tammy Baldwin, DINO Joe Lieberman is replaced by Chris Murphy, Elizabeth Warren, etc.
- The GOP's House majority is deceptive and pretty much based on gerrymandering. The results are still pouring in (give it a week or so), but last I checked the Democrats actually got over 50 percent of the House vote nationwide, and the GOP are still holding a solid majority. Hey, them's the breaks, that's how this works - but it's no mandate, no matter what Mitch McConnell says.
- Earlier today, Karl Rove had to report to his billionaire donors why the ads didn't work. Rasmussen's polls were inaccurate and showed a systematic GOP bias. Dick Morris....well, yeah, Dick Morris. lol @ all of these
- The long lines that people had to wait in in swing states is legitimately horrifying and should be a national embarrassment. Obama saying we need to do something about that was one of the best lines from his speech.
- Look, I'm not going to concern-troll, but really, I'm not sold on the concept that Romney didn't sell conservatism well enough and that's why he lost. His big rise in the polls in the first debate was based basically entirely on moderation - in a few instances he actually attacked Obama from the left (Dodd-Frank not taking care of Too Big To Fail, health care reform not doing enough to deal with rising health care costs, etc). Gay marriage will be a dead issue in 10 years or so (4 wins! finally breaking that awful streak), and being associated with it will become more and more of a liability. The abortion split in this country is a complicated issue where it's hard for anyone to declare a majority - but one thing is for certain, the Akin/Mourdock rape talk and policy position is completely outside the mainstream and unacceptable (the Tea Party is, single-handedly, fully responsible for the Democrats winning in Indiana). Immigration reform will likely be a second term Obama item, and the hardline position is going to result in Latino numbers like Romney's - though I suspect the GOP are already pivoting on this, and I laughed amazingly hard at Sean Hannity's sudden change of heart. Also, uh, we really oughta try and do SOMETHING about this whole climate change business - I hope, but admit I don't know, that Sandy might've woke up the general public on this point. Dog whistles like "Obama removed the work requirement from welfare" are working less and less - and by the time John Sununu is claiming Powell endorsed Obama because he's black, are becoming less and less subtle. And I think more and more people are recognizing this stuff for what it really is. Look, I get at least some of these are major value decisions for some people - but I think the electoral truth is pointing to some of this stuff becoming more and more toxic.
- In fact, I might be able to be convinced that going hard to their base and doubling down on tea party conservatism could give the GOP the edge in the next midterm (not saying I do believe this, just that it might be true) - but I'm pretty sure the days of that working in presidential elections is over. The GOP is going to have to figure this out, and it's not going to be easy.
- There's some signs the economy is sincerely improving, and the single biggest implication of this election is that Obama is highly likely to get credit for it. If Romney had been sitting in the chair, he would've gotten the credit. If it turns out the indicators are right, this will validate a lot of Obama's terms.
- LEGAL WEED WOOOOOOOOO woooo!!!!!!!!!! brb moving 2 colorado
- So glad to see Joe Walsh and Allen West (he's contesting that he lost though, lol) are gone. Was refreshing Michele Bachmann's results all night - she's immortal or something. Steve King survived easily. =(
- One of the big "what if"s of history is going to be where we would've wound up if Obama hadn't sucked at the first debate. Honestly don't know the answer to that question.
- The big damper in my night was a local race which I had some involvement in didn't go my way - though we actually did quite well, given the circumstances. I know someone wins and someone loses in these things, but it's a bit different when you actually know the people involved.

Okay that's a lot of thoughts. Overall, am quite satisfied. Enjoyed reading this thread as well, always good to get some different perspectives.

 

[wonderfly]

So you're saying in advance you'll never, ever give him credit for anything? That's harsh. And that's why politics in America are so deranged.

I'll gladly give him credit for things that he did (and will do) that I agree with - I applaud him for authorizing the mission to kill Bin Ladin, I give him credit for the role we took in freeing Libya from Gadhafi.

But Peter asked if I'll find him "OK", and the answer is no, because I fundamentally disagree with his vision for the country. Doesn't mean I don't respect the office of the President, the electoral process, or that I won't applaud him for things I feel he does right.

Moving on:

Why is Florida still listed as "undecided"?

At 97% of the vote counted, Obama's ahead by 50,000 votes roughly. I don't see Mitt overcoming that, might as well toss that state to Obama as well. Ohio says 90% of the vote is in, yet they still declared it for Obama (though Romney's down by 100,000 votes there).

Anyway, if you toss Florida over to Obama, that'll make the final electoral count: Obama = 332, Romney = 206.

In the popular vote, Obama's got 61 million, Romney's got 58 million, a very close popular vote, when compared to 2008 (actually, it's very comparable to 2004, when Bush got 286 electoral votes and Kerry got 251 electoral votes).

I got to looking at the map of 2012 versus the map of 2008.

Here's 2008:

And here's 2012:

So the only changes this time around is that Romney picked up North Carolina, Indiana, and the one electoral vote from Nebraska. Good grief. What happened to the battleground states?!? Indiana wasn't even declared a battleground state, it was just a given that it would go Romney, thus making North Carolina the only "battleground state" that Romney picked off.

New Hampshire, Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa, Colorado, Nevada, and probably Florida - WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED?!?! Iowa - it's right above Missouri - there's not that much difference between our two states, is there?!? Virginia - why are you out of step with the rest of the South?!? You're right next to West Virginia, Kentucky, and North Carolina - why aren't you feeling the vibe from them?!?

Maybe Romney will somehow pull through in Florida (word is they're still counting absentee ballots - that would make for a small concession in Romney's favor, for all that's worth).

I thought for sure that Romney and Obama would split more of the battleground states (thus making for a closer electoral vote). Looking at that popular vote - this was indeed a much closer election. I just wish the electoral vote reflected that a tad bit more, that's all.

 

[The Landstander]

Campaigns matter

I think the Florida numbers, while it's almost assured to go to Obama, there's just barely enough of a hint of a possibility of a Romney win that some organizations can't fairly call it yet.

Just a real quick note regarding turnout and the national vote, wait until around the end of next week before making any final conclusions on it, because votes will still be trickling in. Also, this is a good read: http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/there-are-no-missing-voters
TL;DR version
- Votes will still be trickling in; the higher use of early voting means there could be even more trickling in than 2008
- Looking at immediate returns, turnout in the swing states was, for the most part, up from 2008
- Hurricane Sandy put a dent in turnout, centralized to the NY/NJ/PA region

 

[defunctzombie]

New Hampshire, Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa, Colorado, Nevada, and probably Florida - WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED?!?!

He didn't campaign here, plain and simple. Remember Obama bowling in PA? My town. A very Republican town. Romney could have had the state if he tried a little harder. Yes Pittsburgh and Philly have a lot of non-white voters that go Democratic but if you don't make the effort, what does that say for your run?

Oh, and Turzai can stuff it, his voter ID law failed to do what he wanted.

 

[Shawn Hopkins]

New Hampshire, Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa, Colorado, Nevada, and probably Florida - WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED?!?!

It just goes to show how soundly Romney and the Republican message were rejected by the American people. They're out of touch, on the wrong side of history. It's change or die.

Iowa - it's right above Missouri - there's not that much difference between our two states, is there?!? Virginia - why are you out of step with the rest of the South?!? You're right next to West Virginia, Kentucky, and North Carolina - why aren't you feeling the vibe from them?!?

The eastmost and coastal part of Virginia, where most of the money, jobs, and people are, is not really the South, or, at least, not the same South that Southwest Virginia and West Virginia are in. I've lived in Southwest Virginia and it feels like a different state.

I love Zombie's comment. None of the voter suppression shenanigans the Republicans tried worked. The billion bucks of often sketchy big donor money they threw at Romney might as well have been thrown on a bonfire, at least it would have looked pretty. Makes me proud to be an American to see that kind of crap rejected.

 

[Aquadementia]

Our long national nightmare is over. Not a single political ad for two days now! It’s safe to look at the tv again.

Maybe it is a tax on stupidity. I love that all the millions that were spent on ads were wasted since it didn’t really change things. But that was because both sides were willing to spend stupidly. Unfortunately it does seem to make a difference when you have only one side spending wildly on ads, usually with outside money,.

Of course people in China get a new head of government and don’t have to worry about seeing a single campaign ad. And if they what to know where the candidates stand on the issues they can shut up get back to work if they know what’s good for them.

I’m a little surprised the Tommy Thompson lost his senate bid, even though I shouldn’t be since the state was predicted to go for Obama. As governor he seemed undefeatable. At least he was able to keep his sense of humour during his concision speech.

Huge win for Obama.
I thought they were calling states too quickly, but I guess it turned out right.
Glad we didn’t have to wait for the Florida results to come in.

Rachel Maddow lays some hard, cold truth upside yo head. If you're going to watch one post election reaction, watch this one.

Damn straight!
Chasing these ghost issues made-up to take advantage of the gullible has done nothing but destroy their credibility when it comes to dealing with things that actually exist in reality.
I live on a spheroid.

 

[Jin Kazama]

Virginia - why are you out of step with the rest of the South?!? You're right next to West Virginia, Kentucky, and North Carolina - why aren't you feeling the vibe from them?!?

Northern Virginia is one of the more populated areas of the state, and a lot of those people commute to DC and Maryland for work, both of which went with Obama. I honestly feel that's why the state was classified a battleground state. As you said, the lower region of it is surrounded by Romney supported states, but above it is Obama ones, hence in a way splitting the votes if you go off of geographical statistics.

I try to avoid political talk like the plague, but I just wanted to chime in as a resident of Northern VA to bring some clarity to that. Most residents of the area pretty much view the DC/MD/VA area as one big thing.

 

[wonderfly]

Of the battleground states, I personally thought North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Iowa, and Colorado would break for Romney. I thought Obama would take Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. I was totally unsure about which way Ohio and New Hampshire would go, I figured they would decide the election.

If you look at the popular vote, this was very close to the 2004 elections, when Bush won the popular vote by 3 million votes (a fairly close amount, all things considered). I just can't believe Obama got over 300 electoral votes again - when you look at the popular vote, it just seems the electoral count would be much closer (like in 2004).

It just goes to show how soundly Romney and the Republican message were rejected by the American people. They're out of touch, on the wrong side of history. It's change or die.

You can't just say Republicans were "soundly rejected" or "on the wrong side of history". Again, look at that popular vote - 58 million people voted for Romney, 61 million for Obama. That much percentage of the country isn't "out of touch" or a lunatic fringe; they just didn't quite have enough votes compared to the Obama supporters.

That doesn't mean that Republicans won't do some soul searching and figure out what needs re-evaluated. Sean Hannity now says his stance on immigration has "evolved"., and that signals a huge change, to me (he says he just wants the issue resolved).

Also, House Speaker John Boehner now says "Obamacare" is the law of the land, signaling they won't attempt to repeal it (not that they can, at this point). Though that may be less "re-evaluating" and more along the lines of "we don't have the votes, so let's all just move on, shall we?"

I've seen scattered articles over the last couple of days saying that what pushed Obama over the top is the youth vote and the hispanic vote. Apparently, many thought that the youth that voted for "novelty Obama" back in 2008 wouldn't show back up this year, but they did go vote (before going back to living in their parent's basements to smoke their newly legal marijuana **). As for Hispanics: immigration reform wasn't truly considered by Congress over the last 4 years (not like it was in 2006/07, at any rate), so I guess people thought the Hispanic community would stay split like it did when many were hispanics were supporting Bush. Yeah, look for immigration to be one of the key issues of the next couple of years.

So yeah, there's some things that can be addressed. The next election cycle should be interesting.

** = okay, that was a potshot, I'm sorry, but I don't see how people under age 25 can support Obama so impulsively. There is more to life than legalization of marijuana and gay marriage, how about understanding that the economy is in danger, and that terrorism is a threat?!?

 

[The Landstander]

The financial crash was September 2008

That much percentage of the country isn't "out of touch" or a lunatic fringe; they just didn't quite have enough votes compared to the Obama supporters.

Well sure, that's quite a few people - and not enough to win. And again, on the question of turnout and the popular vote, just wait a week before making complete conclusions (see the article earlier), and remember that Hurricane Sandy resulted in some lower turnout in what were almost assuredly Democratic strongholds (NYC, NJ area, PA).

In the places where the campaign actually took place, 2012 turnout was level or possibly up from 2008.

before going back to living in their parent's basements to smoke their newly legal marijuana

I wonder what Republican attitudes might've potentially turned this group off.

how about understanding that the economy is in danger, and that terrorism is a threat?!?

I think they would agree with these being important issues; after all, they voted for the guy who averted a depression (as opposed to the party who's policies caused it) and laid out the foundation for the economy recovery that seems likely to be coming, and killed Osama bin Laden (as opposed to the party who stopped caring about him pretty quickly). Though I don't find the impulse to vote on a civil rights matter to be objectionable, either.

Incidentally, Obama's record on marijuana is pretty dismal, and there was little headroom between him and Romney - hopefully he'll leave Colorado and Washington the heck alone, given the will of their voting populace, and we can start being reality-based on this issue (this is one of the areas where a liberal/libertarian alliance makes a lot of sense).

edit: Cool article about how this election would've looked under previous versions of voting laws (i.e. white men, only men, etc)

 

[Chaos Yoshi Mage]

** = okay, that was a potshot, I'm sorry, but I don't see how people under age 25 can support Obama so impulsively. There is more to life than legalization of marijuana and gay marriage, how about understanding that the economy is in danger, and that terrorism is a threat?!?

I've been trying to keep off this thread, but I have to respond here as a person under age 25 that supported Obama. I don't give a damn about marijuana, but yeah, I do care A LOT about gay marriage. However, that isn't the ONLY reason I voted for him. I've seen before Obama and Romney's economic policies and think Obama's make more sense when it comes to actually fixing things as opposed to just telling people what they want to hear (Which is the major reason I couldn't stand Romney at all). As for terrorism, the two had essentially the same stance on this issue except that Obama had a pretty damn good proven track record on combating it. Please stop making light of people younger than you just because they disagree with what you believe, it makes it very difficult to take posts seriously when people do that.

 

[wonderfly]

I've been trying to keep off this thread, but I have to respond here as a person under age 25 that supported Obama. I don't give a damn about marijuana, but yeah, I do care A LOT about gay marriage. However, that isn't the ONLY reason I voted for him. I've seen before Obama and Romney's economic policies and think Obama's make more sense when it comes to actually fixing things as opposed to just telling people what they want to hear (Which is the major reason I couldn't stand Romney at all). As for terrorism, the two had essentially the same stance on this issue except that Obama had a pretty damn good proven track record on combating it. Please stop making light of people younger than you just because they disagree with what you believe, it makes it very difficult to take posts seriously when people do that.

I had hoped to turn the potshot into a chance to give some of our younger forum members a chance to speak out, so thanks, your comments explain where you're coming from, and I can respect that.

I know there are many Republicans who vote on their social issues alone (opposition to abortion, etc), and I don't think that's wise - you have to look at all the issues. I just feared there are Democrats (especially younger Democrats) who do that as well.

 

[defunctzombie]

I voted on social issues, but I also voted for taxes. I refuse to vote for someone who makes fun of poor people. Did you ever hear Chris Rock's set about who can make fun of who? That's what I thought of when the whole 47% vs the 1% came out.

 

[Beefy]

Also, House Speaker John Boehner now says "Obamacare" is the law of the land, signaling they won't attempt to repeal it (not that they can, at this point). Though that may be less "re-evaluating" and more along the lines of "we don't have the votes, so let's all just move on, shall we?"

At this point, it's easier for the states to choose if they want to limit their implementation of Obamacare (three states already voted to), than it would be for Congress to get it repealed.

 

[Shawn Hopkins]

Says it all.

From this hilarious/sad depending on your point of view and level of meanspiritedness Tumblr:

White People Mourning Romney

You can't just say Republicans were "soundly rejected" or "on the wrong side of history". Again, look at that popular vote - 58 million people voted for Romney, 61 million for Obama. That much percentage of the country isn't "out of touch" or a lunatic fringe; they just didn't quite have enough votes compared to the Obama supporters.

I can and do. I don't know what kind of election you watched, but I watched Republicans take the beating of their lives during a weak economy with a vulnerable president. They lost just about everywhere they could, all of their social issue weapons have been turned against them and their lies, intimidation and big money were wasted. The only significant thing they could hold onto were their heavily gerrymandered House seats, and that won't last forever. Most importantly, though, the election showed that the demographics shifts of 2008 were not a fluke. This is the way it's going to be from here on out. The world has moved on to a point where Republicans CANNOT win another national election with the same strategy. They have to change.

And, no, this is not to insult people who still vote Republican and believe in what the party is putting out, they're not stupid and they're Americans too and good people, it's just simply stating that their opinion isn't the majority opinion any more.

I had hoped to turn the potshot into a chance to give some of our younger forum members a chance to speak out, so thanks, your comments explain where you're coming from, and I can respect that.

I know there are many Republicans who vote on their social issues alone (opposition to abortion, etc), and I don't think that's wise - you have to look at all the issues. I just feared there are Democrats (especially younger Democrats) who do that as well.

It would be a lot better to just raise the question without the potshot, which was insulting. Seriously, this is the thing that has annoyed me the most over the last few days, the implication that everyone who voted for Obama did it because they are stupid or for immoral reasons.

People under 25 do understand that the economy is in danger and that terrorism is a threat, and they see Obama slowly but surely improving the economy and killing every terrorist he can find. What did Romney offer? A return to Bush economic policies and a "me too" approach to terrorism.

On immigration, Hispanics are smart enough to realize that Obama was blocked at every turn by Republicans when he tried to do immigration reform, and STILL didn't give up and went around them to get a practical Dream Act in place. It wasn't out of the news, it was in the news and one party looked willing to work with them and one party looked obstructionist.

 

[Aquadementia]

I voted on social issues, but I also voted for taxes. I refuse to vote for someone who makes fun of poor people. Did you ever hear Chris Rock's set about who can make fun of who? That's what I thought of when the whole 47% vs the 1% came out.

Amen!
If people want to make fun of the 1% they should go out and earn a million dollars, like Chris Rock, then they can make all the fun they want.

 

[Harmonie]

Rachel Maddow lays some hard, cold truth upside yo head. If you're going to watch one post election reaction, watch this one.

[video=youtube;SVwXA7sHUlE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVwXA7sHUlE&feature=player_embedded[/video]

I definitely get where she's going, and I do hope that the Republicans reform themselves. move themselves further away from social conservatism and the Religious Right.

It has bothered me that we spend so much of our time making a big deal out of things that really aren't REAL issues. You know, like same-sex marriage. That's not really an issue in my eyes. It's such a simplistic matter, yet we still act like it's something that's controversial with two equal sides.

The Republican party as it is right now is flat out embarrassing to me as an American.