How insane IS the Joker?

[Frank White]

Sorry if this was discussed in the "Wild Card" thread but, did anybody else notice Ace instantly took out Joker but Batman lasted for quite a while?

 

[Eddie G.]

Sorry if this was discussed in the "Wild Card" thread but, did anybody else notice Ace instantly took out Joker but Batman lasted for quite a while?

She didn't hate Batman, she was just using her powers against him because Joker said so. When she attacked Joker she was really pissed.

As for how insane the Joker is, it has been theorized that he is so out there that he is not even isane but is a new type of sanity know as super-sanity.

 

[Fone Bone]

He isn't insane, at least not legally. The definition of legal insanity is not being able to distinguish right from wrong. The Joker knows exactly how wrong his behavior is and that makes him enjoy it even more. I've always had problems with the Joker going straight back to Arkham after his latest crime spree. Some of his activities, such as holding a city ranson on live TV, are so incontravertible that any idiot D.A. should be able to convict him and send him to his own private cell with no human contact in a maximum security prison for the rest of his life, a la Hannibal Lecter. The idea that the Joker goes to Arkham simply because the Batman is the one to catch him (see "Trial". or better yet don't.) is laughable.

 

[David the Joker]

He isn't insane, at least not legally. The definition of legal insanity is not being able to distinguish right from wrong. The Joker knows exactly how wrong his behavior is and that makes him enjoy it even more.

That is so true. The reason everyone thinks Joker is insane is that his motives are too clear because of the comedy way he acts them out. In my opinion, he main motive is the killing of Batman to destroy is good half, but in another sense Joker doesnt want to kill Batman, but turn him into the Joker's way of thinking. Joker's journey would be over if he killed Batman. Back to the insane question, I thought it was interesting too that Ace could effect Joker, but in his own twisted way he wants everyone to think he's crazy so no one will mess with him, since he has no special powers.

 

[Eddie G.]

That is so true. The reason everyone thinks Joker is insane is that his motives are too clear because of the comedy way he acts them out. In my opinion, he main motive is the killing of Batman to destroy is good half, but in another sense Joker doesnt want to kill Batman, but turn him into the Joker's way of thinking. Joker's journey would be over if he killed Batman. Back to the insane question, I thought it was interesting too that Ace could effect Joker, but in his own twisted way he wants everyone to think he's crazy so no one will mess with him, since he has no special powers.

Like I said the Joker is not really insane but is "super sane." He sees the world with no conviction, in fact the Joker sees the world without any prejudice. He sees a world without good, bad, love, hate, and only does things to satisfy his own needs and wants. He is in a way a psychopath or maybe a sociopath in the way that he has no sense of right or wrong or good and evil, he sees the world as one big Joke. So is he really insane? No. Is it understandable people consider him to be insane? Yes.

 

[Karkull]

He's crazier than ten crazy people who also happened to fall into a vat of factory run-off.

 

[ComicPhanatic]

Good question, and all of you had excellent things to say. In many ways, it's easy to dub Joker as "insane." Certainly his thrilled-attitude in seeking to harm innocent people is an example of support in that theory. He trivializes crime/violence and rationalizes his brutal pursuit of chaos. Thanks to his horrible origin (falling into acid and being a failed comedian), The Joker is somewhat sympathic or understanding. In a way, his devillish ways are less frightening and significant because he approaches it in a comical manner. Also, the very fact that he switches from emotion to emotion (such as amusement and anger) in any given moment proves just how fractured his personality is. It also demonstrates his unstoppable ability to take chances/risks in order to achieve his ego-centric aims. Nevertheless, it's not 'black and white' with diagnosing The Joker. I think that he is a victim (or slave) to his own warped perception on how the world and people are (both negative-based). He doesn't see outside that 'box' and seeks to harm others at such a low point that their sanity crumbles and they sink down to his level. Because he lost so much in his life, The Joker no longer cares about his own actions. He sees the world as a pointless field of ignorant masses. When you don't have a conscience, you are free to do most things your conscious mind would say "Stop!" to. Since he lacks superpowers, The Joker is an easier foe to contain, but his intelligence (witty-cleverness) makes it more complicated to stop him from any wild scheme. In conclusion, (like the rest of you) I would say that The Joker has many elements that show him as insane or at the very least conscience-free, so it's easy to make an argument for both sides of the issue. I think Batman represents everything The Joker would like to be (recognized favorably for his separation from the majority of the population). He also signifies competition because it is Batman himself who makes a personal effort to 'interfere' in The Joker's schemes. When it comes to The Joker, it's always a mixed bag because he tends to deal with things unpredictably (though his usual responses are 'wild' and 'over-the-top').

As Jack Nicholson (who so triumphantly captured this great role on screen perfectly) says: “When I was a kid, what I liked about Batman was that it was the only comic book that took place at night. What I liked about The Joker is that he has no taste in his humor.”

 

[AceOfKnaves]

Though I don't find Joker to be totally off of his rocker, I wouldn't exactly call him sane in any way. He's created his own level of odd existence, using sick morbid humor and undying obsession as two of his many evil fuels to drive his appetite for destruction and mayhem to the ultimate height.

On the other hand, I wouldn't exactly call him insane either. The old comics, though not entirely helpful or accurate with the recent Joker characteristics, labeled him as a murdering criminal, still randomly taking the lives of Gothamites, but clever, and devious. When caught by Batman, he'd go to jail, not Arkham Asylum.
There was even a comic that he pretended to be insane for plot purposes, getting himself thrown into the insane asylum to further his plan.

I'm not saying these have anything to do with the Joker we all know now, considering Golden Age isn't current and all...
But I believe they have a hint of truth in them.

Though Joker does things that would make outsiders and common readers guess or assume he's completely insane, you really should look at the fine lines of what he says and does...

If we were to use Killing Joke as an example, we'd have to take into account that he does indeed sing a song about he himself being loo-oo-oony...and his conversation with Batman in the hall of mirrors is enough to prove he's not sane...

But I see it more as a child that's let go of his fears and anger towards the past, allowing a new sense of life to wash over him and blind his sense of what he once was, including everything good in his life. He knows what's right and wrong, sure, but his mind set doesn't allow him to care, nor does it allow him to feel guilty about it.

And I think I shouldn't even get into his obsession with Batman...I think we all know the levels of that.

So just how insane is The Joker? He's not...just pretty friggin' evil.


~Selena~

 

[Revelator]

...Thanks to his horrible origin (falling into acid and being a failed comedian), The Joker is somewhat sympathic or understanding.... Also, the very fact that he switches from emotion to emotion (such as amusement and anger) in any given moment proves just how fractured his personality is... He doesn't see outside that 'box' and seeks to harm others at such a low point that their sanity crumbles and they sink down to his level. Because he lost so much in his life, The Joker no longer cares about his own actions. He sees the world as a pointless field of ignorant masses. When you don't have a conscience, you are free to do most things your conscious mind would say "Stop!" to.

Just keep in mind that in the animated universe Joker wasn't a failed comedian, as in Alan Moore's poigant revision, but rather an enforcer for the Valestra mob. He was a cold blooded killer even before he fell into the acid vat.
As you pointed out, the Joker's frightening mood swings mark him out as mentally unbalanced. He is also a sadist who seeks to degrade others to his own level. And he is a man who believes any means justify the end--I remember watching "Harlequinade" with a friend, who upon hearing the Joker scream, "That's bomb's going off even if I go with it!" said "He's crazy!"
Whether or not the Joker is a definite pyschopath, he is certifiably a sociopath. He is also Batman's crazy mirror. By the time of "Return of the Joker" he has even taken to assembling a family of his own--and in borrowing Tim as a "son" gave Batman and Robin the biggest wound of their lives. Had he realized the full amount of pain, anguish and pschological baggage he'd left the dynamic duo with, he'd have died smiling.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

So just to sum up...The Joker is a funny, cooky, moody, evil, psychotic, sadistic, sociopathic, cold blooded murderer/thief/rapist/con man with a distorted view of reality and anger management problems who enjoys everything he does and who's sole obsession is one-upping an emotionally disturbed orphan who dresses up like a flying rodent? God I love Batman...and they say cartoons are for kids.

 

[Mr_Millions]

I'm surprised nobody made this joke already, and I feel it is my job to lower the bar

How insane is the Joker? Bat-s***

But seriously, I agree that he isn't quite insane, just evil.

BTW, I know that the Joker was a mob enforcer in Mask of the Phantasm, but is that still the case in Justice League? I know that WB animation has a habit of playing fast and loose with their own continuity. (Though I can't imagine a reason to change it)

 

[RAINMAN]

Have y`all notice in both the comic and toon the joker love to use kids as part of his sick planes?