"Iron Man: Rise of Technovore" Animated Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

Can Iron Man save the world when the world is against him?


Click here for the Marvel Animation Age review of Iron Man: Rise of Technovore!http://marvel.toonzone.net/anime/ironman/technovore/reviews/http://marvel.toonzone.net/anime/ironman/technovore/reviews/​

Iron Man: Rise of Technovore
Studio: SH DTV Partners, Sony Pictures Entertainment (Japan) Inc., Madhouse Inc.
Release Date: April 16th, 2013

Synopsis: Billionaire Tony Stark, in his Iron Man armor, prevents an attack from a mysterious new foe, but innocent bystanders are killed, including his best friend War Machine, Lt. Colonel James Rhodes. Detained for questioning by S.H.I.E.L.D., Iron Man escapes, determined to find the mastermind behind the attack. Pursued by Black Widow and Hawkeye, Iron Man enlists the help of the ruthless vigilante The Punisher. But can the Armored Avenger handle what he finds when he catches the person responsible and is forced to face his deadliest weapon, a biotechnology called Technovore that could wipe out all life on the planet?

Comments on Iron Man: Rise of Technovore?

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Related Threads:
-Iron Man: Rise of Technovore Feature Review (Spoilers)
-Iron Man: Rise of Technovore Blu-ray/DVD Talkback (Spoilers)
-Marvel Anime Series Talkback (Spoilers)
-Marvel Anime: Iron Man DVD Talkback (Spoilers)

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[Ishin ookami]

I got this yesterday, but havn't had time to watch it due to staying at work late last night. I've been reading reviews, and really getting a mixed vibe about this that seems to translate to if you have a certain expectation of this, you may want to shelve them.

If you are expecting characters to behave and act like they do in the movies or comics. Dont. This film was developed with a primary purpose of further exposing iron man to a japanese audience, it was written for that audience by a Japanese studio who doesn't care about the movies or comics. Sorry. Go into this with that expectation shelved, and you may be able to roll with this different interpretation of the characters.

Another thing, I am so totally not watching this film in english. I watched some of the dub and cringed. not that it was awful, it just has a DBZ level of "dumbed down for children." Madhouse is kinda like the michael bay of anime, except nowhere near as stupid. They are the best in the business when it comes to animating action. But their stories, are 2/3rds of the time sub-par. So im expecting a certain level of dumb and pretentiousness, but the dub from what ive seen just ups the cloying factor.

So far, the postive reviews praise the animation and action, and dont say much about the story. This is pretty much what I expected. Norman Reedus as the Punisher? Dont care. Ive watched enough animes with both dubs and subs to know that there is often a world of difference between the two. Enough to make them feel like borderline totally different movies. Dubs are often hamstrung by multiple factors. Actors that dont get what the japanese actors were going for, needs to lipsync, and directors who feel the need to fill moments of silence with offscreen dialouge. So I go with the more natural feeling product and have this policy to any international film be it italian, japanese, bollywood, hong kong, french, ect.

Thats my policy and expectation, I'll chime in with a more review centered post later this week.

 

[RoryWilliams]

I enjoyed it for the most part. The dub wasn't bad but there were a few miscasts (James C. Mathis III was a far better Black Panther than War Machine unfortunately). There was a definite Evangelion influence I got, and that's sort of a double edged sword. There's some great imagery and sci-fi horror, but at the same time, they seem to have mimicked Eva's infamous "Let's have people babble on incessantly for 10 minutes to seem deep and philosophical" dialogue. Seriously. Ezekiel Stane's ambiguous prattle gets so annoying by the end of the film I just kept hoping someone would punch him in the mouth.

But there's a lot of absolutely wonderful animation and fight scenes, especially the finale. I did find it odd that they seemed to try to tie it into the Marvel Cinematic Universe a bit when it contradicts so many elements.

 

[Ishin ookami]

Is anyone here a trigun fan?

From the trailers I definitely get a Vash and Wolfwood vibe off of Hawkeye and Black Widow. Especially with the motorcycle through the desert scene, and hawkeyes cropped short blonde hair and smirking grin, considering Madhouse also animated trigun, I'm wondering whether or not the similarities are the result of using a similar model/archetype or Madhouse was doing an homage to their most successful and beloved series.

 

[W.C.Reaf]

This thing was pretty terrible. It's not as bad as some Iron Man animations but that's not saying a lot either. It felt like one of those 'let's throw everything at the wall so we get someone's interest' plots. The manhunt for Tony was absolutely pointless and made worse by the Punisher being there for no reason. It also made SHIELD seem even dumber since we see them put more effort and resources into finding/fighting Iron Man and they do for the villain they're supposedly concerned about.

That entire plotline could've been cut out and the time should've been used to flesh out the villain and explain at least something about him. They had a lot of symbolism but that amounts to nothing if you don't explain why, how, and what's going on. Like the random women Zeke talks to, she's obviously meant to be Technovore but her being there affects nothing and only provides someone for him to spout his sudo-(none)philosophical ramblings to. They could've used her when Technovore started taking over, but they didn't leaving her to be another wasted part of this film.

They didn't even bother explaining why and how Tony's Arc Reactor suddenly hurts Technovore. It just comes out of nowhere and there's not even any token technobable to excuse it. Not that their token technobable would've helped given what they did with Rhodey.

*1/2 goes to the animation and not much else. The best thing I can say about this is that it's not the previous Anime.

 

[Ishin ookami]

Well, I saw it last night. Heres my two cents.

First of all, I thought the first 2/3rds of the movie was fantastic. Mostly action with just enough story to make things interesting. Shield hunting stark wasn’t anywhere near as random as some have made it out to be. Shield wanted answers as to who the main villain was, Tony was the only person who had them and he took off for revenge, and shield wanted to pull Tony back in before he started more trouble as a vigilante. How is this so hard to understand?

Tony was also pretty in character. Though the Technovore was very advanced and beyond him, he understood the basic princibles on how it needed to function and used his technological understanding to track it down. Pepper worked well in the role she was given, loved how a mandroid busts through a wall in her penthouse and she just chides it for not knocking. I guess when you’re Tony Starks girlfriend, crazy like that is the norm. Tony’s friendship with Rhody was well done as well. Some touching bromance stuff.

And did I mention the action? Madhouse did a awesome job. Every fight scene is just filled to the brim with some awesome adrenaline fueled action and neat, “look how super badass I am” moments from all the key players.

Then the film moves into its final act, which is way too “End of Evangelion” for its own good. The villain waxes insanely philosophical, attempts to wipe out humanity using organically derived technology taken from the discovery of mitochondria eve, Things go all akira for about ten minutes. Its easily the most off putting moments in the film. The villain while cool in principle, was not really executed all that well. Its not game breaking, you just want the guy to shut up so the film can get back to the action, which it does eventually. I wouldn’t call it a deal breaker, but it does substantially sour what was up until that a great action film. When Technovore first showed up, people died, stuff blowed up, and he mostly didn’t talk at all, and the film worked. Towards the end you couldn’t shut the guy up and the film suffered for it.

Overall, It was a good film. I watched it subtitles, and really cannot imagine the film working near the end in English. Villains who express sociopathic world philosophy and heroes who debate it is a Japanese thing through and through, I cant see the English actors pulling these scenes off, and they are alienating enough in their intended language and direction. If you can get over a substantially weaker final act than the first two thirds, and characters that are depicted somewhat differently from the movieverse, I’d say you got yourself a solid Iron Man film here.

3 ½ stars from me. Would have been 4 ½ if that damn technovore guy would have shut up sooner.

 

[Medinnus]

Shield wanted answers as to who the main villain was, Tony was the only person who had them and he took off for revenge, and shield wanted to pull Tony back in before he started more trouble as a vigilante. How is this so hard to understand?

So let me get this straight. You think that issuing kill orders to SHIELD agents, and deploying Mandroid forces and special op agents to bring Stark in/down for questioning as a witness is somehow reasonable?

 

[Ishin ookami]

So let me get this straight. You think that issuing kill orders to SHIELD agents, and deploying Mandroid forces and special op agents to bring Stark in/down for questioning as a witness is somehow reasonable?

At no point in the japanese dialouge or subs did nick fury issue a shoot to kill order. Cant really see it happening in the dub, which I steadfastly refuse to watch since its the aberration here. also mandroids were using stun weaponry, and black widow and hawkeye were using non lethal weapons on iron man the whole time.

EDIT: Only time anything lethal was thrown at iron man by shield was when he flipped off fury and literally broke out (as in punched a hole through) the helicarrier. I think I can forgive a clueless rookie on patrol for that missile salvo, and even then... the guy just survived an exploding complex falling on top of him. like a missile hit would have been enough to finish him off.

as for your arc reactor comment. Well its known that in the movie verse, its based on asgardian energy and in the comics is based on self perpetuating energy princibles similar to nucluear fission and cellular mitosis. how hard is it to understand either of these would backfoot the techno-organicly derived, anti tech, technovore?

 

[Medinnus]

At no point in the japanese dialouge or subs did nick fury issue a shoot to kill order. Cant really see it happening in the dub, which I steadfastly refuse to watch since its the aberration here. also mandroids were using stun weaponry, and black widow and hawkeye were using non lethal weapons on iron man the whole time.

First of all. you don't get to arbitrarily just dismiss the dubbed version because you don't like it )

Second, and more to the point - you are going to sit there and try to tell me that all the damage done by the Mandroids and the special agents was designed for "stun"? Really? And that the cost of the property damage was worth them bringing in Stark as a witness? Really?

* S.H.I.E.L.D. fightercraft fire lasers. No order to disengage from SHIELD is given.
* S.H.I.E.L.D. fightercraft homing missles. No order to disengage from SHIELD is given.
* Black Widow in a S.H.I.E.L.D. fightercraft fires lasers. Plane destroyed.
* Mandroids announce "We are authorized to use deadly force" at 31.07 Fury specifdically doesn't countermand. Orders that they fire. That is called a KILL ORDER. The explosive rockets they fire are hardly non-lethal. The cannon fire is not rubber bullets. "But they knew it'd be useless against Iron Man" - horse hockey, or why bother firing, why bother deploying the Mandroids at all.

 

[Ishin ookami]

First of all. you don't get to arbitrarily just dismiss the dubbed version because you don't like it )

Second, and more to the point - you are going to sit there and try to tell me that all the damage done by the Mandroids and the special agents was designed for "stun"? Really? And that the cost of the property damage was worth them bringing in Stark as a witness? Really?

* S.H.I.E.L.D. fightercraft fire lasers. No order to disengage from SHIELD is given.
* S.H.I.E.L.D. fightercraft homing missles. No order to disengage from SHIELD is given.
* Black Widow in a S.H.I.E.L.D. fightercraft fires lasers. Plane destroyed.
* Mandroids announce "We are authorized to use deadly force" at 31.07 Fury specifdically doesn't countermand. Orders that they fire. That is called a KILL ORDER. The explosive rockets they fire are hardly non-lethal. The cannon fire is not rubber bullets. "But they knew it'd be useless against Iron Man" - horse hockey, or why bother firing, why bother deploying the Mandroids at all.

I dont dismiss dubs because I dislike them, I dismiss dubs because even the best ones need to make changes to make dialouge flow and make sense to an english audience, any dub, regardless of the language its dubbing it too, can only hope to not be TOO big a bastardization. Bad ones are truly abominable. I've seen peoples eyes glow red when comparing the DBZ dub to its original japanese language. And that dub at least had good actors.

Some of the *to kill or not to kill* argument is artistic license, this is madhouse we are talking about here. 9/10ths of their output is gorgeous to look at, and brilliant with the action, but often not too good to stare to close at the plot. Rise of Technovore is better than some of their past output, like Ninja Scroll the series.

can I make the nerdy and overlytical argument that those lasers were not full powered, that those missiles contained ordinance designed to incapacitate? sure. but again, its nerdy and overanalytical. At no time in the story did fury issue a kill order, in the japanese, the mandroids were repeating orders for stark to come along quietly, even politely offered to carry his bags for him (which I found hilarious). Like I said, dubs, any dub, regardless of the language, take certain liberties, and it sounds like this dub took plenty.

Also not going to continue this argument. its kinda redundant, this is my last post on it.

 

[W.C.Reaf]

as for your arc reactor comment. Well its known that in the movie verse, its based on asgardian energy and in the comics is based on self perpetuating energy princibles similar to nucluear fission and cellular mitosis. how hard is it to understand either of these would backfoot the techno-organicly derived, anti tech, technovore?

Ahem:

If you are expecting characters to behave and act like they do in the movies or comics. Dont. This film was developed with a primary purpose of further exposing iron man to a japanese audience, it was written for that audience by a Japanese studio who doesn't care about the movies or comics. Sorry. Go into this with that expectation shelved, and you may be able to roll with this different interpretation of the characters.

So are we meant to dismiss the movie/comic versions because it's Japanese or are we meant to use comic/movie knowledge that isn't expected of the Japanese audience to fill in the plot holes?

Anyway the problem is not that the Arc Reactor can do it but that it just happens, out of nowhere, with no token explanation of how it solves the plot. It just works somehow and is bad writing plain and simple.

As for the SHIELD manhunt, well considering its entirely pointless to the plot which is meant to be the "rise of Technovore" it's a bit of a problem and very forced. 'Tony won't go in for witness questioning when he could easily give up his suit data on the attack. Let's go full scale manhunt on him with lethal force instead of hunting the actual bad guy!' It's more bad writing for the sake of forced conflict and action scenes.

 

[Freddy]

Like many people have already said, this movie has many MANY problems like SHIELD's actions making no sense, pointless cameos from Punisher, Black Widow and Hawkeye, bland villain and things happening just for sake of the plot. However action scenes were entertaining and I really liked all the character desings, so I'm glad I saw this.

Unless you are hardcore Marvel and/or anime fan who has to see everything about them, you don't really lose anything if you skip this, but there are also worse things you could spent your time and money on. This was better than some Marvel's live-action movies (FF, Elektra, GR...) and other animation projects (Next Avengers, USM...).

 

[KYO'NYUU IMOUTO]

First of all. you don't get to arbitrarily just dismiss the dubbed version because you don't like it )

Sure he does. The dub isn't the film. Marvel gave Madhouse some money and a short story outline and said make us a movie. Madhouse made them an actual, full movie. Just because Marvel doesn't like the movie they made for them it doesn't mean they get to make a dub and pretend that suddenly their dub of Madhouse's film is in anyway a contribution to an already completed film. If there's a change in the story of the dub there's a change in the story of the dub.

 

[Medinnus]

Sure he does. The dub isn't the film. Marvel gave Madhouse some money and a short story outline and said make us a movie. Madhouse made them an actual, full movie. Just because Marvel doesn't like the movie they made for them it doesn't mean they get to make a dub and pretend that suddenly their dub of Madhouse's film is in anyway a contribution to an already completed film. If there's a change in the story of the dub there's a change in the story of the dub. That's pretty clear.

No, he doesn't. The film as released is likely going to be watched by most of the USA audience in dubbed format, not sub-titled. You can argue all day that dubs are inherently inferior to sub-titled versions (and I won't even argue with you on that count), but BOTH versions are official releases. You can't just dismiss the dubbed version, especially as that is the version most people will be watching (and the one that will have the widest distribution on the bootleg network, too). Its not like some fan did the dubbing. Neither did Marvel. Madhouse did it, and its part of the official release.

 

[KYO'NYUU IMOUTO]

No, he doesn't. The film as released is likely going to be watched by most of the USA audience in dubbed format, not sub-titled. You can argue all day that dubs are inherently inferior to sub-titled versions (and I won't even argue with you on that count), but BOTH versions are official releases. You can't just dismiss the dubbed version, especially as that is the version most people will be watching (and the one that will have the widest distribution on the bootleg network, too). Its not like some fan did the dubbing. Neither did Marvel. Madhouse did it, and its part of the official release.

Yes, you can dismiss it. The color of my front lawn isn't going to change from green just because a few hundred thousand people want to believe it's orange. The dub is of course official (somebody would be sued if it weren't), but that doesn't mean it has any bearing on the film itself.

 

[Ishin ookami]

Ahem:



So are we meant to dismiss the movie/comic versions because it's Japanese or are we meant to use comic/movie knowledge that isn't expected of the Japanese audience to fill in the plot holes?

Anyway the problem is not that the Arc Reactor can do it but that it just happens, out of nowhere, with no token explanation of how it solves the plot. It just works somehow and is bad writing plain and simple.

As for the SHIELD manhunt, well considering its entirely pointless to the plot which is meant to be the "rise of Technovore" it's a bit of a problem and very forced. 'Tony won't go in for witness questioning when he could easily give up his suit data on the attack. Let's go full scale manhunt on him with lethal force instead of hunting the actual bad guy!' It's more bad writing for the sake of forced conflict and action scenes.

Do people need every single plot detail and precious film time wasted on bland exposition and explanation when a bit of imagination and logic leaping can do the same?

as for the shield manhunt thing, well its about what I expect from madhouse. Was it absolutely and vitally important to the films overall plot and character development? In no way. Did it lead to some freakin awesome action scenes? Oh yah. When you go to madhouse, you go there for them to animate a film for you that looks good enough to make a man drool. That was my expectation, that the plot would be there just as an excuse for the action, and lo and behold, thats what I got. Hulk Vs Wolverine isn't well thought of for its plot and deep characters is it? I expected the same, thats what I mostly got. The only time Madhouse had a story worthwhile, with a fitting beginning, middle, and end was trigun. And that project was a labor of love, done by parties at madhouse who wanted to keep a canceled comic product going, and reached out to the author. EACH and EVERYONE of their series is the same story, often a strong beginning with a lackluster ending. Maybe X-men is above their usual standards since it maintained a steady course all the way through.

Its not like some fan did the dubbing. Neither did Marvel. Madhouse did it, and its part of the official release.

Marvel studios did indeed handle the dub. Why do you think the initial trailers lacked any english dialouge, they were released by madhouse. And if you are trying to tell me that the dub is the official version due to it being the most widely distributed version through pirated channels, then you sir have filled your fail quotiant for the month. And maybe most NON-anime or international film viewers will watch the dub only, but those in the western audience who are into either will reach immediately for the subs and japanese language option.

 

[Mr. Hypocrite]

So I just watched it.

It was kinda slow, and there was a bit too much talking. The action scenes were good though.

.....WHO THE HELL WAS THAT WOMAN?!!! SERIOUSLY?!!!!!


Also, why did Stane lose control of the Technovore? That's never really made clear either. Man though, when started Akira-ing everyone, you knew stuff was getting real.

 

[Ishin ookami]

So I just watched it.

It was kinda slow, and there was a bit too much talking. The action scenes were good though.

.....WHO THE HELL WAS THAT WOMAN?!!! SERIOUSLY?!!!!!


Also, why did Stane lose control of the Technovore? That's never really made clear either. Man though, when started Akira-ing everyone, you knew stuff was getting real.

She was the technovore. At one point he mentions that the technovore was created from DNA extrated from the remains of mitochondria eve. So basically the armor itself was alive and able to project its consciousness. It was working with him, and using him. Basically when he started to bugger things up, the armor took over.

 

[Mr. Hypocrite]

She was the technovore. At one point he mentions that the technovore was created from DNA extrated from the remains of mitochondria eve. So basically the armor itself was alive and able to project its consciousness. It was working with him, and using him. Basically when he started to bugger things up, the armor took over.

Oh. I guess I kinda suspected something like that, but still. Would have been nice to say "This woman is actually the Technovore. That's is all."

 

[macattack]

Oh. I guess I kinda suspected something like that, but still. Would have been nice to say "This woman is actually the Technovore. That's is all."

I think the woman was credited as "Sasha Hammer" in the credits, which just makes things more confusing.

Yeah, I just saw the movie myself. Very good first hour, but the last 30 minutes felt really, really rushed.