"Iron Man: Rise of Technovore" Animated Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

[W.C.Reaf]

Do people need every single plot detail and precious film time wasted on bland exposition and explanation when a bit of imagination and logic leaping can do the same?

When that plot detail is how the entire plot is resolved then yes that does indeed need some explanation. Instead of the 'Tony has a magic do-dad that solves the plot that worked just because' we got in the film. It's still a horrible plot device but its use is made worse by the fact that they didn't explain the whys and hows it worked. Then again the entire film worked on the 'just because' excuse so wanting anything more from it is some high expectations.

as for the shield manhunt thing, well its about what I expect from madhouse. Was it absolutely and vitally important to the films overall plot and character development? In no way. Did it lead to some freakin awesome action scenes? Oh yah. When you go to madhouse, you go there for them to animate a film for you that looks good enough to make a man drool. That was my expectation, that the plot would be there just as an excuse for the action, and lo and behold, thats what I got. Hulk Vs Wolverine isn't well thought of for its plot and deep characters is it? I expected the same, thats what I mostly got. The only time Madhouse had a story worthwhile, with a fitting beginning, middle, and end was trigun. And that project was a labor of love, done by parties at madhouse who wanted to keep a canceled comic product going, and reached out to the author. EACH and EVERYONE of their series is the same story, often a strong beginning with a lackluster ending. Maybe X-men is above their usual standards since it maintained a steady course all the way through.

"Freakin awesome action scenes" is a bit much. I've seen plenty of series and films with better action scenes so this was a yawn from me. It didn't help that the action had no weight since the plot connecting those scenes, and what is supposed to make us give a damn about them, is so terrible. I don't care about the conflict between Iron Man and SHIELD because it was stupid so whenever they fight in my mind I was going "this could be solved in 2 minutes if they weren't so stupid."

As for Madhouse and story, well since they made 'The Girl Who Leapt Through Time', 'Paprika', 'Paranoia Agent', 'Summer Wars', 'Black Lagoon', and many other good shows/movies I kind of expect more from them. At least something that isn't bland, soulless, and stupid. But that seems par for the course for their western licensed Anime.

 

[JTMarsh]

The animation and fights were very good, and the voice actors gave good performances despite some overwritten dialogue (Matthew Mercer, formerly Tygra of the 2011 Thundercats, not only evokes a little bit of Marc Worden's performance from past DTVs but also sounds a little bit like veteran VA Cam Clarke), but the Stark Vs. SHIELD stuff felt like unnecessary filler, and the villain was a bit underwhelming. The Punisher's cameo was amusing. Not sure where I'd rank this on a scale of 1 to 10, but I'm leaning towards a 6 overall, maybe 6.5. I didn't hate it, just feel that it could've been better in places.

 

[Gold Guy]

I liked the film. It wasn't anything great, but it wasn't awful either.

The animation and action scenes were great, so thats a plus. Seeing Iron Man in action like that was sweet! And Punisher was cool, although he could have appeared more.

The story was....meh. It could have been worse, but some things felt....underdeveloped. I did like the scene where Ezekiel remembers how awful his dad was, bu otherwise, Ezekiel was such a lame villain. I guess he thinks that he is above humanity, but gosh, he came off as a spoiled brat, and a lot of his dialogue was...strange, to say the least.

I didn't mind the dub, although I couldn't get rid of the subtitles for some reason.

 

[macattack]

One thing I found kinda irksome (though it could easily just be my ears messing with me):

I am 95% percent sure that was Laura Bailey as Black Widow in the original dubbed trailer. But in the movie itself, it was Seth Green's wife, Clare Grant, voicing Widow. That means that once again at Marvel, they dubbed the original VA over for a production. It's not a big deal in this case, as Widow doesn't get to do a whole lot besides grunt and be annoyed/frustrated, but I don't understand why that would occur here, and why Marvel would waste the money to have Seth Green's wife dub over Bailey.

Though it could just be my ears messing with me. They sound pretty similar..

 

[Aang]

Watching this movie lead me to thinking about some features of Marvel animation over the past 7 to 10 years. [I am not an insider of this industry nor do I know anyone who is an insider of this industry. These comments are solely based on my observations as an outsider.] Marvel has apparently chosen a business model which can be described in one word: strategic. This seems to be evident in all of their projects: whether they are DTVs or series. Rather than focusing primarily on building up their core base, their goal seems to have been to expand the recognizability and popularity of more of their characters into more markets.

This can be seen in their choices for DTVs through Lion's Gate: Ultimate Avengers I and II, Dr. Strange, Invincible Iron Man (at the time of its release Iron Man was not as popular as he is now), Next Avengers, Hulk Vs., Planet Hulk, and Thor Tales of Asgard. The purpose of these DTVs seems to have been to expand the recognizability of Marvel characters who were not Spider Man or X-Men.

In the tv series: Marvel Super Heroe Squad, Iron Man Armored Adventures, Ultimate Spider Man (and I would also argue Wolverine and The X-Men and Fantastic Four World's Greatest Adventurers) the purpose seems to be to expand the popularity of their characters to include a younger demographic.

Finally the anime mini series: Iron Man, Wolverine, X-Men, and Blade seems to have had the primary purpose of expanding the recognizability and popularity of Marvel animation internationally.


Whether long time supporters of Marvel have liked all or any of these decisions is obviously an ongoing debate. However, objectively speaking, it does seem to be an effective business model especially when you see its results in connection to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

This movie seems to continue that strategic trend. In other words make an Iron Man anime movie. Then incorporate in that more Marvel characters who did not appear in the Iron Man anime series (War Machine, Nick Fury, Maria Hill, S.H.I.E.L.D. in general, Hawkeye, Black Widow, and the Punisher. Market the movie primarily to an international audience and of course have it be released a few weeks before Iron Man 3 is released.

I am not going to restate what others have already said on this board about the action scenes, the plot, the animation, or the antagonist (Ezekiel Stane). These things have been stated better than I could state them anyway.

There were some scenes (although not alot) in the movie which seem to be geared more towards an older audience (use of profanity, etc.). I did not feel that these scenes added anything positive to the movie and therefore I feel as if they were not necessary. However, I did enjoy the portrayal of each of the aformentioned characters. Each one was pretty cool in the scenes in which they were involved and it does make me interested to see more of them in future DTVs or series whether anime or not.

 

[Rick Jones]

I can't tell if the overall look and animation were what really influenced me (I can be very superficial) but I came away from this generally liking it. I still had my problems with it and thought that there a lot of things that they could have done to make it a better movie. The visuals were a major plus with me but if I had to point to anything as the big negative here, it would probably be the script. Combined with voice acting that doesn't sound right at times, the awkward dialogue really makes its way to the forefront. There are some lines here that I'm not sure even the best VAs in the biz would be able to sell. It also felt as though there were a lot of story details that were (for whatever reason) never fully explained to the audience. It would have been nice to have a clearer idea on what the real deal with Sasha was, or how Ezekiel managed to boost his intelligence and come up with Technovore, or why Tony's armor had such an adverse effect on Technovore. Going into this, I kind of expected Tony to be the victim of a lethal frame-up, which would have then made the manhunt necessary but that probably wouldn't have seemed any less familiar than the choice they went with.

It was just an extended cameo, that was probably out of place to some, but I really enjoyed seeing the Punisher here. I like Norman Reedus and I think he managed to do a cool job but I can't shake feeling that if they were able to snag someone like Thomas Jane or Ray Stevenson, I'd probably be in Heaven. I'm definitely on the lookout for the Punisher/Widow feature now though. Watching this also made me think of how the last Marvel Anime round might have been improved if they probably tried features instead of series (that were probably longer than they should have been).

 

[Spider-Man]

I came away from this movie enjoying it too. I'm not going to pertend it was perfect but I did like it. There are a few problems with the story, almost as if some things were lost in translation to the English version (which is the version I watched), but overall I thought this was pretty good. I'm not expecting this movie to get a positive overall reception though since it's very different from the previous Marvel DTVs and even a little different from the Iron Man anime series. Does anyone think this is in continuity with that show? Is it supposed to be?

I did love the animation and thought the action scenes were really great, too. The film did drag from time to time but it managed to keep me interested for most of the time. I wish the villain was developed just a little bit more too because he really didn't come off as a special threat, just another rich looney that Stark has to deal with. I do enjoy the Stanes as villains but I just wish a little more was done with them. Based on the interview that Jim did on MAA I am really curious to see what that Ultron story would have been like.

 

[Convoy Rat]

I thought this was a decent movie, although I think there's unanswered questions even the creators of the film don't know the answer to!

For example, Technovore says he tucked away Hawkeye and Black Widow towards the end of the movie, and yet two scenes later Hawkeye and Black Widow are back at the control room with Nick Fury. Guess ol' Zeke and Luther doesn't like to tuck away his presents too tightly!

And I guess we are to assume that Sasha was just a figment of Ezekiel's imagination? Because nobody acknowledges her besides him throughout the entire movie, and Tony asks who he is talking to at one point.

Don't get me wrong, the final battle was pretty impressive for a Marvel Animation movie, but even the resolution was a bit foggy. First Rhodey is supposed to shoot Tony, and then Tony decides to just shoot himself with the satellite? It would have been nice if one of the characters explained what was happening, but oh well.

So besides those gripes, I enjoyed the movie. Technovore's monster form was very unique for Marvel's standards, and I actually didn't have a problem with the Punisher plotline. Good thing they didn't let Jeph Loeb get his grubby fingers on this one!

 

[suss2it]

This can be seen in their choices for DTVs through Lion's Gate: Ultimate Avengers I and II, Dr. Strange, Invincible Iron Man (at the time of its release Iron Man was not as popular as he is now), Next Avengers, Hulk Vs., Planet Hulk, and Thor Tales of Asgard. The purpose of these DTVs seems to have been to expand the recognizability of Marvel characters who were not Spider Man or X-Men.

I'm pretty sure the only reason we haven't gotten a Spider-Man or X-Men animated movie from Marvel yet is because Sony & Fox control their move licenses respectively.

 

[Aang]

I'm pretty sure the only reason we haven't gotten a Spider-Man or X-Men animated movie from Marvel yet is because Sony & Fox control their move licenses respectively.

Perhaps. Your point is valid. I would only ask you to consider that if your suggestion is correct, then how do you explain the
X-Men anime series, Wolverine and the X-Men, and Spectacular Spider Man? Each of which was created during this time frame. Why would the licensing concern prevent DTVs but not series? Also, if they really wanted to, could not DTVs have been ordered through these outside sources?

 

[W.C.Reaf]

Because TV series and DTVs/films are considered different things. Marvel still have the TV licenses to those properties so they can make shows of them but the film licenses are with Fox and Sony. DTVs are classed as films so they can't make them with properties they don't have the film licenses for.

(And Spectacular Spider Man was actually made by Sony when it had both the film and TV license to Spidey, but now they only have the film one.)

 

[Aang]

Because TV series and DTVs/films are considered different things. Marvel still have the TV licenses to those properties so they can make shows of them but the film licenses are with Fox and Sony. DTVs are classed as films so they can't make them with properties they don't have the film licenses for.

(And Spectacular Spider Man was actually made by Sony when it had both the film and TV license to Spidey, but now they only have the film one.)

Cool. Thanks for the feedback guys! I love the points that you guys have made. Just so that my point is clear, the time frame for all of these projects covers both Pre-Disney Marvel and Disney Marvel. The issue about the licensing of both Sony and Fox of Spider Man and X-Men respectively does not necessitate that:

1. Marvel could not have pushed (or at least attempted to push) for animated movies through Sony and/or Fox for these characters if this was a high priority, or
2. That the licensing of these characters by Sony and Fox was not a catalyst that precipitated decision makers at Marvel to highly prioritize the making of other Marvel characters just as recognizable within pop culture as Spider Man and the X-Men already were and are.

To say that the only reason animated DTVs were not made of Spider Man and/or the X-Men was because of licensing reasons (i.e. there was no legimitate long term plan behind the making of DTVs with the Avengers characters, et.al.), seems to unnecessarily limit other possibilities including that which I have theorized.

Because of those projects, Steve Rogers is now my favorite Marvel character. Because of all of the projects that I originally mentioned, the Avengers are more interesting to me than are the X-Men. Also, because of those projects I actually care enough to take the time to watch Iron Man Rise of the Technivores.

I am sure that there are alot of people on this board who are more knowledgeable about Marvel characters and their history than I am. I am also sure that in the general culture there are many people like me, who several years ago primarily only thought about and were only interested in Spider Man and the X-Men in relation to Marvel. But now they have an equal or even greater interest in the other Marvel characters which have been highlighted more prominantly during the past several years.

This was the main point that I was making in my original post.

 

[KYO'NYUU IMOUTO]

I still haven't gotten around to watching this movie. Anyhoo, Sakugabooru has a few new examples of which cuts were done by which key animator. These cuts from an unknown animator of Tony putting on the suit is rather nice. I wish the layout wasn't so flat, though. I hadn't noticed before, but flash animator and director Yamashita Shingo also did a few cuts. Not his best work, but nice to see him involved with Marvel.