Is Nickelodeon Overhated?

Does Nickelodeon Deserve the Hate it gets?


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I do think Nick does deserve the hate it gets, but NOT for the new shows

rather, they deserve the hate for keeping around shows LONG after they overstayed their welcome
 
Agreed. I love CN, but their original shows are all on the same wave length. The sad part about CN is although their programming is quality - their ratings are as low as ever, even with solid shows.

For Disney, they've been dropping in their ratings. Like CN, all their live action shows are all interchangeable and their animation is gonna be ripped apart. PaF/FH are ending and WoY/GF (which could've REALLY taken off) are being pushed away to XD. Go figure.

Could be worse for Nick, but it's not.
Phineas and Ferb isn't cancelled, it's just on a hiatus and according to Dan Povenmire himself on Twitter, the hiatus seems to have been uplifted. https://twitter.com/DanPovenmire/statuses/436303395725402112

Anyway, I can see why people don't like modern Nickelodeon. They've been relying on SpongeBob reruns since it's return from cancellation. I commend them for not relying on SpongeBob as much as they used to, but the problem is that they rely on shows based on established franchises than looking for original programming. I think it needs to get back to that and maybe show syndicated programming ala the 90s (I mean shows that weren't even made by the channel themselves).

At least in the Klasky/Csupo era, the channel still had variety to me anyway.
 
Nick either needs to find a way to emphasize PLOT DRIVEN comedies a la AT & GF, or be able to produce non-stop laugh riots.

This is absolutey key, and is something CN and DIsney get that Nick dosen`t.
 
This is absolutey key, and is something CN and DIsney get that Nick dosen`t.

Well, not counting ALL of their shows (either channel, of course!), that's surprisingly enough for me.
 
This is absolutey key, and is something CN and DIsney get that Nick dosen`t.
I would't really call AT plot driven but something with a lot of depth and that's the problem with Nicks cancelled cartoons like Tuff Puppy Planet Sheen and Robot and Monster, it was depth Sanjay and Criag despite being a gross out dude and bro comedy has a lot of emotional and character depth hell Planet Sheen was going to have more of a serious tone with Sheen acting as a double agent for the resistance Nick canned that idead and the show we got barely lasted and burned on Nicktoons. This is why I'm looking forward towards PFBC and Bad Seeds
 
If there's any real reason to hate on Nickelodeon, it's the 20+ (going on 25) year practice of overdoing marathons and playing certain popular shows into the ground. Disney was guilty of this, too (i.e. That's So Raven), but Nick really overdid it with Fairly Oddparents early on in its run, and that series is a trend-setter for the wrong reasons. It's a celebration of stupidity, considering Timmy Turner's about as sharp as a broken pencil a lot of the time (and Cosmo got worse as time went on).

I haven't sat down to scope Sanjay & Craig or some of the other current shows of late, but older folks like me have to remember that the target demo isn't going to change. As we get older, as today's kids get older, another generation will come along. That's just the nature of things.
 
Having crossover appeal is fine as long as it doesn't overshadow the target demo. In his book Creating Animated Cartoons with Character, Joe Murray talks about how Nickelodeon was looking for edgier cartoons that stood out when they picked up Rocko's Modern Life. The show did indeed get a lot of attention, but mostly it was from college students. This led to the advertisers demanding a more kid-friendly show. While this didn't tick Murray off too much, it did make him pitch Camp Lazlo more with kids in mind.
 
I think people hate the network more because of it's over reliance on SpongeBob SquarePants and The Fairly OddParents (though FOP doesn't have a lot of airings now, it still airs pretty often, it gets more slots on weekends), along with the decline of both shows. I can somewhat see why, but the other shows that are currently on (except for Monsters Vs. Aliens and Rabbids Invasion, and I could care less for their live-action shows) are pretty good. Nick was pretty much a mess in the 2008-2012 era, but they have been improving in 2013, and now they are beating Disney Channel (which yes, I don't think Disney deserves any of the good ratings, with the exception of Wander Over Yonder, Mickey Mouse Shorts, and Gravity Falls, all of Disney Channel's new shows suck IMO).
 
A few observations I'd like to throw in.

1) While everyone is vying for the K-12 demographic, shows that air on Nick tend to be more towards the K end, shows that air on CN the 12 end, and shows that air on Disney in between. CN has a lot of shows that are popular with young teens and also Adult Swim, which brings in a lot of college viewers. Many of these see Nick as the more babyish channel, and dismiss any new shows as such, typically over the internet which they are much more versed at using and getting their opinions out than a child. So, while Nickelodeon gets a larger amount of viewers, these make up a silent majority and the perception that Nickelodeon is a "dead", "dying", "stale" channel has been around for as long as the internet has been popular, believe me. I can vaguely remember on some old cartoon forum I browsed people thinking Rocket Power would be the death of the channel.

2) Others have stated, overuse of the main bread makers, Spongebob and FOP. While I resent some have insulted these arguably classic shows as "trash", such a moniker is at least fitting for the latest season of FOP which was one of the worst cartoon productions I have ever seen, I barely watch Spongebob anymore at all but the opinion doesn't seem to be any brighter from what I've read. Those lists that have been circulating the internet which show Spongebob dominating the top 50 ratings have looked ridiculous for the channel, even when one considers that with Spongebob removed, Nick still had a decently diverse lineup but little of it was able to even crack 2 million viewers. It just gives naysayers even more ammo to use against this channel when it can easily be perceived to be nothing but the "Spongebob channel".

3) The same guys stinking up the joint for years. Mainly, Hartman. He's regressed so ridiculously far as a cartoonist in the past seven or so years. Once one of the giants in the industry, stupid decisions for his shows like Poof, Sparky, the influx of comedy into Danny Phantom, live action movies, bait-and-switch finales, it's all reduced him to midget status and he has become a laughing stock. Also, even though he hasn't worked with the man in years, Hartman is sometimes named as a co-defendant of Seth MacFarlane, another man who has become quite reviled by internet communities (Because South Park said he was bad... or something). Another thing Hartman did, which probably can't be mentioned here, and I'm not even sure I put the blame on him anyways, has made Hartman an enemy of hardcore cartoon fans. You'll have to ask around elsewhere if you want to know about that though. It's not just Hartman of course, Dan Schneider has also lost his magic.

4) Bad online marketing. CN and Disney have simply done a better job getting their product out their on the internet, while Nickelodeon up until only recently simply relied on their horrid flash site where bots posted most of the praising comments. They've been making some progress on Facebook and Tumblr, but compared to what Disney has with their Gravity Falls website, they've got a long ways to go.

Those are just guesses though. The biggest factor simply is that Nickelodeon has been struggling to produce another clear cut hit. The Avatar series was the real last one, and before that, FOP, AGU, and Spongebob. While Sanjay and Craig gets good ratings, I'm hesitant to call it a hit, we saw how fastly the TUFF Puppy ratings faded. Korra, in my opinion, has been a little disappointing compared to its predecessor. I don't see Breadwinners being the newest Spongebob either. They've got the right idea by doing things like, say, not picking up any of Hartman's pilots, and hiring from new and unique talent, so we'll see how it pans out in the coming years.
 
One show had a side plot of a grandfather being a competition against other family members in a contest for making the best smoothie (or something). It was the grandfather versus the mom, dad, daughter, and son (the grandfather versus the team of the latter four), the four agreeing that they all should have this competition more often if they (the four of them) win. The grandfather soon and secretly messed up his own smoothie intentionally so when the person who judged the two smoothies out took a drink from his, she didn't like it and he lost the competition. The daughter learned that the grandfather did what he did, and that he did it because he liked how the family members were working together and having fun and that he lost the competition on purpose to get them to do this competition more, as a way to bond more.

I think that plot line went something like that. It was the B plot, but still. One would argue this plot line sounds touching, one thing some people say "'90s Nick" shows had. (Well, I've heard various things about what "'90s Nick" had.)

But because this happened in the infamous Marvin Marvin, it's likely gone unnoticed by most.

Being relatable is something some have said current Nick shows (or at least live action Nick shows) lack, but just because the premise isn't necessarily about something most kids are dealing with (that is, actually becoming famous stars) doesn't mean the shows have little to relate to.

Big Time Rush
was made to advertise the Nick band Big Time Rush. (I believe the show and band were made from the same idea, not that the show came far after the band was thought of.) One of the plots of the hour-long beach special/episode was of two of the boy band members going treasure-hunting with Patchy the Pirate, the non-cartoon guy (played by Tom Kenny), from SpongeBob SquarePants. Many people probably wouldn't think a Nick music show would go in such a direction, but this show did. People recognize Patchy because so many people watch SpongeBob, which includes Patchy sometime. Also, it's one of those intentionally weird, "What in the world" kinds of things, (not something meant to be "hip" and "cool"- although the show did still have elements of that).

There was another episode where the band Big Time Rush had to deal with losing popularity due to the "British invasion" of boy bands coming to the US (like One Direction), and often the characters in this episode treated the situation like the American Revolutionary War, with them thinking about how to fight off the British (which a lot of US viewers can relate to by at least learning a general amount of information about it in school and etc.)

Also, the Bel Air episode (where the band members briefly move to Bel Air) had a role played by Alfonso Ribiero, who played the Fresh Prince of Bel Air character Carlton, likely one of the most well known characters of the show. I think that's even more special than having Will Smith in the episode, because Alfonso Ribiero's mainly known for his Bel Air character and Will Smith is known for that and many other things (no offense to Alfonso Ribiero).

Even without relating to Big Time Rush by recognizing the references to those shows, kids have other things in the show to relate to. The show has characters like the Jennifers- the trio of mean actresses who are similar to a set of mean girls that kids/teens deal with in school, and Bitters, the often negative, rule-enforcing owner of the hotel where the Big Time Rush band lives (Bitters being like a mean school principal or something like that).

I like the show BTR, hence my writing about it a lot.

Also, there's a live action show on Nick with an episode with a scene of these two kids swordfighting each other but using breadsticks, (or something like that). It was just a brief scene, but the point is that some people want Nick shows about kids having fun being kids. That scene was just showing those two kids messing around, being somewhat unruly. Also, one of those kids, and her older sister, used to make intentionally disgusting cakes and had each other eat them. (In the past, in this show.) Both of those things are in the current show, The Haunted Hathaways. If they happened in a Nick show that aired in the '90s, I think those things would be noticed more as these neat, weird kid things.

Not trying to automatically dismiss any criticism of the current Nick (although Big Time Rush and Marvin Marvin aren't current shows), but I'm trying to say this as a "give credit where credit is due" sort of thing.

Also, I prefer the splat logos Nick used to the current plain one, but Nick's been alternating that newer logo in fun ways and yet most people don't really seem to say that they notice yet still express how they want a splat logo back.
 
Also, I prefer the splat logos Nick used to the current plain one, but Nick's been alternating that newer logo in fun ways and yet most people don't really seem to say that they notice yet still express how they want a splat logo back.

You mean the new variant they're using on all their merchandide? The one that tries to invoke the feeling of the old logo with the orange background and white text? That one?
 
Not including the nonsensical nostalgia-struck general public, Nick deserves every bit of the hate it's been receiving.

The channel is practically present day WWE but without the charm of tuning in out of habit or anxiously awaiting change. Instead of making new, interesting, creative, quality shows they rely on the same, tired out comedic formula that has seen better days and phase out or set anything that doesn't fit the mold up for failure (assuming that it even makes it on television). The fact that Nick usually outperforms its competition ratings-wise despite the quality of it's product and with no [significant] signs of change on the horizon is another thing many don't take kindly too. The channel gets by on autopilot so what reason does it have to try and provide even children with something worth watching aside from spamming 2 heavily overexposed, over saturated , over the hill shows in Spongebob and FOP? Forget WWE, it's more like WCW.
 
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Not including the nonsensical nostalgia-struck general public, Nick deserves every bit of the hate it's been receiving.

The channel is practically present day WWE but without the charm of tuning in out of habit or anxiously awaiting change. Instead of making new, interesting, creative, quality shows they rely on the same, tired out comedic formula that has seen better days and phase out or set anything that doesn't fit the mold up for failure (assuming that it even makes it on television). The fact that Nick usually outperforms its competition ratings-wise despite the quality of it's product and with no [significant] signs of change on the horizon is another thing many don't take kindly too. The channel gets by on autopilot so what reason does it have to try and provide even children with something worth watching aside from spamming 2 heavily overexposed, over saturated , over the hill shows in Spongebob and FOP? Forget WWE, it's more like WCW.

OK? Because TMNT, LoK, SJC, RI, and BW are all carbon copies of SBSP and FOP? I mean those five are just rip offs like how FBaCC, PS, and TP. Oh they share the same storylines/humor/gags/art just like how the PoM/KFP/MvA Dreamworks properties do. Ya, Nick's five new cartoons really aren't diverse, different and unique from each other. Ugh...

AGAIN, I get that SBSP gets a lot of repeats, but FOP basically airs the same amount now as SJC and RI - both of which have weekday slots

And Nick has kept it's premiere and scheduling consistent since 2013, even with shows that have "underperformed" in ratings like TTM, THH, and RI - all of which have notched great numbers deep into their seasons BECAUSE Nick never gave up AND have all been renewed for second seasons. Both moves Nick failed to do before with shows that may have had some potential (RaM/HtR). Plus Nick has aired it's shows regularly in their slotted times, barely making any last minute pulls or changes. Plus they've promoted/advertised each show to their best ability IMO.

So if you're talking about Nick not giving its new shows a chance, please refer 2008-2012, and know 2013 and on his been a complete 180. Because from what I've seen, SBSP/FOP/KFP/LoK/TMNT/SJC/RI/BW/SaC/TTM/THH/PR is Nick moving forward. You're points are out dated.
 
Whoever is saying Nick relies on FOP needs a huge fact check. Last time I checked FOP only airs once a day on their weekday schedule, and hasn't aired a new episode since October.

There's no denying the fact though that they do rely on Spongebob.

I have other things I wanted to say but I'm too lazy right now.
 
OK? Because TMNT, LoK, SJC, RI, and BW are all carbon copies of SBSP and FOP? I mean those five are just rip offs like how FBaCC, PS, and TP. Oh they share the same storylines/humor/gags/art just like how the PoM/KFP/MvA Dreamworks properties do. Ya, Nick's five new cartoons really aren't diverse, different and unique from each other. Ugh...
Maybe somehow I wasn't clear but in any case I never said every show they air are "carbon copies" of Spongebob and FOP and I definitely said nothing about Nick's upcoming shows so I don't know why you're mentioning those.

AGAIN, I get that SBSP gets a lot of repeats, but FOP basically airs the same amount now as SJC and RI - both of which have weekday slots
We can discount FOP then.

And Nick has kept it's premiere and scheduling consistent since 2013, even with shows that have "underperformed" in ratings like TTM, THH, and RI - all of which have notched great numbers deep into their seasons BECAUSE Nick never gave up AND have all been renewed for second seasons. Both moves Nick failed to do before with shows that may have had some potential (RaM/HtR). Plus Nick has aired it's shows regularly in their slotted times, barely making any last minute pulls or changes. Plus they've promoted/advertised each show to their best ability IMO.
OK? I never mentioned scheduling but it's good that they've improved in that area.

So if you're talking about Nick not giving its new shows a chance, please refer 2008-2012, and know 2013 and on his been a complete 180. Because from what I've seen, SBSP/FOP/KFP/LoK/TMNT/SJC/RI/BW/SaC/TTM/THH/PR is Nick moving forward. You're points are out dated.
They generally sum up why a lot of people "overhate" Nick outside of wanting 90s shows back so how exactly are they outdated?
 
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No.

How to explain the internet comments? People on the internet hate everything. I'm sure Disney and CN have their hate threads too.

I've been with Nick since I was a kid and things are looking a lot better. As rocko said, 2008-2012 was a pretty big low point and they were too reliant on cash cows and just now they're finally getting diversity in the lineup and schedule. I think things will improve more if Cyma Zarghami leaves but I'll say things are still improving.

They just need to be patient with shows and not yank them if they aren't hits.
 
Maybe somehow I wasn't clear but in any case I never said every show they air are "carbon copies" of Spongebob and FOP and I definitely said nothing about Nick's upcoming shows so I don't know why you're mentioning those.

We can discount FOP then.

OK? I never mentioned scheduling but it's good that they've improved in that area.

They generally sum up why a lot of people "overhate" Nick outside of wanting 90s shows back so how exactly are they outdated?


1. You said this, "Instead of making new, interesting, creative, quality shows they rely on the same, tired out comedic formula that has seen better days and phase out or set anything that doesn't fit the mold up for failure (assuming that it even makes it on television)."

Which is why I said, how are the current batch - LoK/TMNT/SJC/RI/BW the "same, tired out comedic formula that has seen better days", when compared to SBSP/FOP. You have to be talking about SBSP/FOP as being the same tired comedic formula right, since there's nothing else on Nick right now prior to 2012. And if so, no. The current batch of Nicktoons are DIFFERENT, interesting, creative and unique from each other, especially when compared to what Nick had before.

2. Gotcha

3. You said this regarding how Nick treats new shows, "(Nick will) phase out or set anything that doesn't fit the mold up for failure (assuming that it even makes it on television).

I'm assuming you're talking about Nick pulling premieres of shows that don't perform. And when you bring up it even making it on TV, I'm assuming that in response to their horrible scheduling before. But I brought up what I did, because if that's what you're talking about, since 2013 Nick has kept all shows on air, have not pulled anything last minute, and are renewing shows that aren't even the best in ratings. They are not set anything up for failure when it comes to their current shows.

4. It's outdated because those reasons you bring up aren't Nick's current situation. You're post is inferring that Nick is like that RIGHT NOW. But they aren't. The hate Nick is getting was for what it had done 2008-2012, but it's not like that now. So to criticize a network for things they DID vs things they are DOING, are outdated IMO.

But you're entitled to your opinion. But just stating mine in response to yours.
 
MOD NOTE: Topics that involve "hate" or "hating" tend to get heated easily and bring out strong opinions in people. I haven't seen anybody out of line yet but just a reminder to everyone: stay cool, don't make things too personal.
 
Adults not liking shows that broadcast on "the first kids' network" that's a shocker.

In all seriousness, Nickelodeon used to have more variety but all I can really fault them on right now is over-use of SpongeBob but that's right in line with how any network over-uses their breadwinners. That and I think it's lousy they don't play Ninja Turtles more often. Not even premiere encores at the moment and that's ridiculous for a show that does rather well for them and makes them mucho bucks in merchandising.

If there's anything I miss from when I was a kid watching Nickelodeon it has to be game shows that involved physical elements. I'd like to see them do more of those or even revive one of their old ones. I mean shoot Dee Bradly Baker could come back to voice for Legends of the Hidden Temple if they revived that. Watching the old episodes is just a time capsule. I think kids would really enjoy doing shows like Double Dare and just imagine how cool they could make the "inside the game" part of Nick Arcade now with modern technology. I really meant it. Nick occasionally does quiz shows still and they keep making sitcoms and cartoons and have even delved into action animation now. But for whatever reason they don't do game shows with physical elements to them... maybe too much legal trouble in modern society? I wouldn't doubt it but it does seem a bit silly that such things prevent us from seeing a new version of GUTS, Legends, Double Dare, Wild and Crazy Kids or something new entirely.

I think as animation and television fans we get hung up on the idea that all shows should have a broad appeal even though most of us wont fault a niche show for lacking broad appeal if it's something we particularly like. It's swell when kids cartoons are appealing to a broad audience but it's not essential for making a good children's cartoon or sitcom. We have to remember that despite our nostalgia for certain shows we liked a lot of stuff because it was intended for kids. That said, I don't like to see more childlrens' shows that talk down to their audience. For the most part I don't think Nick shows are guilty of that lately but maybe a few are. I'd argue a great many over the years did exactly that.

TLDR: Nickelodeon relies a bit too much on a few shows and lacks variety but that's kind of how it always has been and likely how it always will be. CN and Disney are not so different and they all get hate from adults who don't like how those networks have changed. It's best not to think much of the complaints.
 

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