Justice League "War World, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

I gotta say I've never understood the low-regard this arc is held in. I am by no means saying it is great, but I've never had a real problem with it. I like the whole gladiator concept and the way Draaga and later Superman are portrayed against Mongul the tyrant. "Win the crowd" entered my head more than once after Superman started to gain the crowds' favor. And as an added bonus, we get the first bits of tension between John and Shayera and we all know where that leads. Not great, but there's some good stuff in here.

 

[Sue]

I agree. It's not unwatchable, and while it's not one of the best, it's certainly not the worse

 

[Bizarro Batman]

It's probably the worst episode of the whole series, but that doesn't mean it's a bad episode. I still enjoyed watching it, and that's good enough for me.

The worst moment to me was when J'onn says "He's a Superman!" I couldn't believe they wrote that line and took it seriously.

 

[The Penguin]

The worst moment to me was when J'onn says "He's a Superman!" I couldn't believe they wrote that line and took it seriously.

I actually kinda like that line. I saw it as J'onn's way to get the crowd to call Supes by his "real" name. It also chants better than "Kryptonian" does.

 

[LadyM]

I hated this episode. I think it's my least favorite JL episode ever. Raaawr, gladiators. Rawwwr.

~LM~

 

[HanaKirei]

For all the harsh feedback this arc gets, and for how far this series has come since then, War World's something I'll always look back on with a fond little grin. Way back when, I completely hated -anything- DC. Can't remember how exactly it started, but I just plumb hated it. Never watched Batman or Superman during their runs, and never missed a chance to crack jokes about them when I got the chance. I poked my head into Batman Beyond, mainly because the idea of someone else being Batman sort of perked my interest. But that didn't end up holding me for long (even if I did like Terry). I just wasn't a DC fan in the least.

So then came Justice League. Saw the commercials, rolled my eyes, and refused to have anything to do with it. Whenever it came on, I just changed the channel. No biggie.

Then came an oh-so historic moment. There I was, innocently channel surfing, when I ended up on Cartoon Network. Luck must've been on my side, because staring back at me were two heroes I didn't even know the names of. Some black guy in, oh goodie, MORE spandex, and a certain tempermental winged redhead that caught my eye, bickering like an old married couple. I still hated Superman and blanched the second he appeared on my TV (it'd take another season for that poor guy to catch a break from me). But Hawkgirl kept me watching throughout the rest of the episode. And from there, I began keeping an eye out for it, hoping I might get to see her in action again.

Now? I'm an avid watcher of the show, I love most of the cast, and I look up comic information on the characters whenever I get the chance. Even debated dabbling into the comics themselves or investing in.

Yes, War World's a bit hokey and flawed. But if it weren't for that, I might not be here today. ^^ For that, it gets a high sentimental score outta me.

Yes, I'm done rambling now. You may now proceed with your regularly scheduled discussion. *hides*

 

[Bizarro Batman]

I actually kinda like that line. I saw it as J'onn's way to get the crowd to call Supes by his "real" name. It also chants better than "Kryptonian" does.

It's just the way he said it. Had he just went something like "No, he's......" and then started chanting his name, that would've been fine.

 

[The Penguin]

It's just the way he said it. Had he just went something like "No, he's......" and then started chanting his name, that would've been fine.

I'm guessing J'onn's idea was to present it more randomly as if he made it up on the spot as opposed to acting like he knew him. Despite the cape, J'onn tried to take another form entering the arena so I'm guessing he was concerned about outting himself despite the fact that no one was apparently looking for him outside of Mongul's men.

 

[Wolf Boy2]

I've tried to be diplomatic in previous posts. When I voted on the "Does War World Suck?" poll, I chose a middle-of-the-road answer. But after watching it on the DVD season 1 set, I cannot hold this in any longer.

"WAR WORLD" freaking pwns!

Yes, I said "pwns." Easily one of my favorite Season 1 episodes. Yes indeedy.

Fans complaned about the wimpy Season 1 Superman, yet this was probably the best Superman fight of the season. Fans complained about the lack of blood all throughout JL/JLU, yet in "War World" it is not only shown, it spurts (albiet black blood from an alien, but hey, blood is blood). Superman bleeds in his fight with Draaga. Draaga bleeds (green blood). Fans complained that the creative crew shyed away from showing death on JL, yet "War World" depicts a brutal alien murder and a bunch of dead aliens lying in a heap.

Plus, this episode planted the seeds for the John/Shayera romance. And the robots were a nice visual nod to Brainiac's robots in S:TAS "Stolen Memories."

This was an AWESOME episode. I tend to like the stories other people hated (like Batwoman, which I think was one the the DCAU's best Batman stories).

P.S.: "Gladiator" is one of my all-time favorite movies, probably second only to "Forrest Gump" or "Raiders of the lost Arc."

 

[Dusty]

I've tried to be diplomatic in previous posts. When I voted on the "Does War World Suck?" poll, I chose a middle-of-the-road answer. But after watching it on the DVD season 1 set, I cannot hold this in any longer.

"WAR WORLD" freaking pwns!

Yes, I said "pwns." Easily one of my favorite Season 1 episodes. Yes indeedy.

Fans complaned about the wimpy Season 1 Superman, yet this was probably the best Superman fight of the season. Fans complained about the lack of blood all throughout JL/JLU, yet in "War World" it is not only shown, it spurts (albiet black blood from an alien, but hey, blood is blood). Superman bleeds in his fight with Draaga. Draaga bleeds (green blood). Fans complained that the creative crew shyed away from showing death on JL, yet "War World" depicts a brutal alien murder and a bunch of dead aliens lying in a heap.

Plus, this episode planted the seeds for the John/Shayera romance. And the robots were a nice visual nod to Brainiac's robots in S:TAS "Stolen Memories."

This was an AWESOME episode. I tend to like the stories other people hated (like Batwoman, which I think was one the the DCAU's best Batman stories).

P.S.: "Gladiator" is one of my all-time favorite movies, probably second only to "Forrest Gump" or "Raiders of the lost Arc."

Ditto on everything you said,


D.

 

[Casey Mack]

I've tried to be diplomatic in previous posts. When I voted on the "Does War World Suck?" poll, I chose a middle-of-the-road answer. But after watching it on the DVD season 1 set, I cannot hold this in any longer.

"WAR WORLD" freaking pwns!

Yes, I said "pwns." Easily one of my favorite Season 1 episodes. Yes indeedy.

Fans complaned about the wimpy Season 1 Superman, yet this was probably the best Superman fight of the season. Fans complained about the lack of blood all throughout JL/JLU, yet in "War World" it is not only shown, it spurts (albiet black blood from an alien, but hey, blood is blood). Superman bleeds in his fight with Draaga. Draaga bleeds (green blood). Fans complained that the creative crew shyed away from showing death on JL, yet "War World" depicts a brutal alien murder and a bunch of dead aliens lying in a heap.

Plus, this episode planted the seeds for the John/Shayera romance. And the robots were a nice visual nod to Brainiac's robots in S:TAS "Stolen Memories."

This was an AWESOME episode. I tend to like the stories other people hated (like Batwoman, which I think was one the the DCAU's best Batman stories).

P.S.: "Gladiator" is one of my all-time favorite movies, probably second only to "Forrest Gump" or "Raiders of the lost Arc."

tell me remebr when superman was telling Draga he didn't want to fight him, and trying to talk Draaga out of the fight? Now ask yourself this, why didn't Superman simply fly away [thus avoiding a fight he did not want]?

 

[Simon Trent]

Superman can fly? I thought he could only leap very far.

 

[Dusty]

tell me remebr when superman was telling Draga he didn't want to fight him, and trying to talk Draaga out of the fight? Now ask yourself this, why didn't Superman simply fly away [thus avoiding a fight he did not want]?

cause it was in the script for him to fight,

 

[Simon Trent]

cause it was in the script for him to fight,

Plus, maybe he didn't feel like it today. You wanna fight about it?

 

[Cortez2301]

Until now I dont get why people hate this episode.It wasn't bad to that extent.I mean I prefer this than "The brave and the bold" .Mongul had really good lines here and the story was fine.

 

[Joker1238]

tell me remebr when superman was telling Draga he didn't want to fight him, and trying to talk Draaga out of the fight? Now ask yourself this, why didn't Superman simply fly away [thus avoiding a fight he did not want]?

Because the last time Supes try to fly away he got Zap.

Who knows maybe Mongal has the whole arena protected???

 

[Karkull]

Please join us at Aglets Are Sinister as we take a look at what is frequently described as the worst episode of Justice League, "War World." But was it really that bad? Find out as I -- along with Anime Superhero alumni, Maxie Zeus -- pick it apart and try to rebuild it. Are you not entertained?

 

[Yojimbo]

I always wondered why they didn't just move the asteroid. They had the superpowers to do so. I think the blow-it-up approach was perhaps too influenced by 1998's Armageddon and maybe they were looking for a visual with bang to it for the cold open. I wouldn't have liked a trap especially if it was too similar to how Darkseid got Superman in "Legacy".

I also wondered if that slaver ship and the captain were inspired by/and a wink to the Pre-Crisis Warzoons.

I agree, it felt like they went too out of their way to de-power J'onn in this episode and it seemed to be random, not an intended defense.

Good point about Superman not choosing to help overthrow but uh helped facilitate a regime change because hopefully Draaga wouldn't continue Mongul's practices, free the slave warriors and reform the planet for the better. Hopefully. Mongul was kidnapping people against their will but not going around killing people who wouldn't convert like Despero so Superman passed? Umm... but for the latter, we had Kilowog making his way to Earth and John headed there more as a GL than Leaguer to salvage their op and find Katma.

Yeah, that shocker in "Legacy" might have changed his opinion about intervention but working alongside a Green Lantern might have also influenced things i.e. they are an organization now - not a single hero and have law and rules to follow. It seemed like the Justice League did wait until they are asked for help rather than going around proactively (Darkseid asked for help, those aliens in Comfort and Joy asked for help, etc) but then at the start of the JLU era broached the line of being too pro-active maybe. But notice in JLU, they kinda stayed away from space incidents on-screen except for them initially turning down Miracle and Barda in lieu of letting the civil war continue to weaken Apokolips or falling for Paran-Dul's distress call. Overall, a lot of Earth stories on JLU so kinda hard to gauge how they approached despots like Mongul who weren't yet a direct threat to Earth or the JL once they expanded. Though of course Mongul made a visit to Earth anyway.

 

[Karkull]

I always wondered why they didn't just move the asteroid. They had the superpowers to do so. I think the blow-it-up approach was perhaps too influenced by 1998's Armageddon and maybe they were looking for a visual with bang to it for the cold open. I wouldn't have liked a trap especially if it was too similar to how Darkseid got Superman in "Legacy".

I also wondered if that slaver ship and the captain were inspired by/and a wink to the Pre-Crisis Warzoons.

I agree, it felt like they went too out of their way to de-power J'onn in this episode and it seemed to be random, not an intended defense.

Good point about Superman not choosing to help overthrow but uh helped facilitate a regime change because hopefully Draaga wouldn't continue Mongul's practices, free the slave warriors and reform the planet for the better. Hopefully. Mongul was kidnapping people against their will but not going around killing people who wouldn't convert like Despero so Superman passed? Umm... but for the latter, we had Kilowog making his way to Earth and John headed there more as a GL than Leaguer to salvage their op and find Katma.

Yeah, that shocker in "Legacy" might have changed his opinion about intervention but working alongside a Green Lantern might have also influenced things i.e. they are an organization now - not a single hero and have law and rules to follow. It seemed like the Justice League did wait until they are asked for help rather than going around proactively (Darkseid asked for help, those aliens in Comfort and Joy asked for help, etc) but then at the start of the JLU era broached the line of being too pro-active maybe. But notice in JLU, they kinda stayed away from space incidents on-screen except for them initially turning down Miracle and Barda in lieu of letting the civil war continue to weaken Apokolips or falling for Paran-Dul's distress call. Overall, a lot of Earth stories on JLU so kinda hard to gauge how they approached despots like Mongul who weren't yet a direct threat to Earth or the JL once they expanded. Though of course Mongul made a visit to Earth anyway.

• As I said in the piece, both Armageddon and Deep Impact had just come out. I've noticed that a lot of the episodes pull influences from blockbuster films from around the time they aired.
• While I agree using Maxie's opening with the boobytrapped ship is too similar to "Legacy," it didn't stop them from reusing "mind-controlled Superman" in Batman Beyond's "The Call."
• Aside from the red skin, I don't see too much similarity between the slavers and the original Warzoon.
• It's hard to gauge Superman's intent. He's all about freeing people, but I don't think he wants to be a nation builder. He's more of a "giving people in need a helping hand" type. I'm going to have to pay attention to this more moving forward. After all, I've got a Part Two of my Superman close-up to write.

 

[Yojimbo]

As I said in the piece, both Armageddon and Deep Impact had just come out. I've noticed that a lot of the episodes pull influences from blockbuster films from around the time they aired.

Yeah, I would guess that's more the writers pulling from the current zeitgeist.

• While I agree using Maxie's opening with the boobytrapped ship is too similar to "Legacy," it didn't stop them from reusing "mind-controlled Superman" in Batman Beyond's "The Call."

Point taken.

• Aside from the red skin, I don't see too much similarity between the slavers and the original Warzoon.

The helmet designs sorta matched. Likely coincidental, but if James Tucker designed them you never know, he could have sneaked that in.

• It's hard to gauge Superman's intent. He's all about freeing people, but I don't think he wants to be a nation builder. He's more of a "giving people in need a helping hand" type. I'm going to have to pay attention to this more moving forward. After all, I've got a Part Two of my Superman close-up to write.

Perhaps also something to mull over when you do Starcrossed, but related to this discussion - say the Thanagarians Hyperspace Bypass System was non-lethal to the planets and they opened the portal, was the Justice League going to go with them and fight the Gordanians or just tell them 'well, good luck with that we'll be here on Earth'? Would they be more inclined to go and help because a Thanagarian was among their ranks?