"The Avengers: Age of Ultron" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

[Yojimbo]

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The Avengers: Age of Ultron
Release date: May 1, 2015 (3D/2D theaters)
Studio: Walt Disney Pictures, Marvel Studios
Director: Joss Whedon
Screenwriter: Joss Whedon
Starring: Chris Evans, Samuel L. Jackson, Robert Downey Jr., Linda Cardellini, Mark Ruffalo, Andy Serkis, Thomas Kretschmann, Jeremy Renner, Don Cheadle, Paul Bettany, Stellan Skarsgård, Scarlett Johansson, Julie Delpy, Idris Elba, Cobie Smulders, Hayley Atwell, Chris Hemsworth, James Spader, Elizabeth Olsen, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, Claudia Kim

Plot Summary: Marvel Studios presents The Avengers: Age of Ultron, the epic follow-up to the biggest Super Hero movie of all time. When Tony Stark tries to jumpstart a dormant peacekeeping program, things go awry and Earth's Mightiest Heroes, including Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, The Incredible Hulk, Black Widow and Hawkeye, are put to the ultimate test as the fate of the planet hangs in the balance. As the villainous Ultron emerges, it is up to The Avengers to stop him from enacting his terrible plans, and soon uneasy alliances and unexpected action pave the way for an epic and unique global adventure.

Marvel's The Avengers: Age of Ultron stars Robert Downey Jr., who returns as Iron Man, along with Chris Evans as Captain America, Chris Hemsworth as Thor and Mark Ruffalo as The Hulk. Together with Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow and Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye, and with the additional support of Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury and Cobie Smulders as Agent Maria Hill, the team must reassemble to defeat James Spader as Ultron, a terrifying technological villain hell bent on human extinction. Along the way, they confront two mysterious and powerful newcomers, Wanda Maximoff, played by Elizabeth Olsen, and Pietro Maximoff, played by Aaron Taylor-Johnson, and meet an old friend in a new form when Paul Bettany becomes Vision.

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Discuss anything and everything about The Avengers: Age of Ultron right here!

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[Neo Ultra Mike]

Warning: My usual long ranty type of review. And by ranty I mean really ranty. I go on like an absurd amount of tangents on this one because I wanted to get out all my thoughts on it right after seeing it. So with that said here you go.

Spoiler

After the ultra mega success of the first Avengers movie not only proving a giant entertaining hit for folks around the globe, but a financial victory that made everyone want to have their own cinematic universe, we're finally up to the second big film putting our various Marvel heroes together to fight a terrifying foe. Some wanted it to be Thanos but I'm fine with waiting for the Infinity Wars to get to him. One thing I do wish though is that like we had with the previous films, more actual build up to this one. Sans the tease for the Winter Soldier, which was just about the other non James Spader baddies, we didn't really get anything that sets this up. At least for the most basic forward view anyway. However that's just preconceptions on the movie going in. How does it fare now that I've seen it?

I think I see what people say that it's not quite the same level of epically hilarious as the first one, but it's still really good.

First things first though narrative wise it doesn't build up much from some of the other movies (a lot of the supporting cast of these universes are only mentioned not really seen but in a cast of over 20 named characters going around at least I can understand why) this actually really works character wise. Iron Man 3, Dark World and Winter Soldier were asking the question what do Tony, The Asgardian and Steve do now that they've answered the true call of heroes and have become a part of something bigger, and this honestly continues all of their arcs. Well Thor's seems more like a tease for Infinity War with him more seeing the Stones and wanting to go after them but eh Thor did honestly seem the most together in a sense so that works. I appreciate this really cementing Cap finding his place more in this world. We got that in the previous Avengers and Winter Soldier but those also had him spend a lot of time reflecting and being confused or trying to just hold onto past ideals. This more then anything else has him admitting forward and noting how much he's changed now as a person and isn't about to go back. And yeah though this doesn't exactly explain how Iron Man 3 ended with Tony blowing up all his armor and he still has them... that's still something I blame on Shane Black more who knew another movie was coming but felt like he wanted to give it a more definite end. I think the idea of Tony wanting to have the fighting come to his end and his fear and feeling that he could of done more leading to creating Ultron but wanting to push past back to do everything he can to save the world are admirable qualities and honestly really do fit in well with his character. I especially liked his scenes with Bruce pointing out how they're mad scientists and that's something they should embrace even when others say they shouldn't.

I also have to question the people that are trying to compare this to Man of Steel or Transformers when it comes to "Destruction porn" or something. Seriously this was true in the first Avengers and this is especially true here: these are just situations that super heroes come into but what makes them heroes is their ability to handle it with the least amount of casualties lost. Seriously when a brainwashed Hulk was rampaging across fruit stands and abandoned buildings, Iron Man/Tony was still doing all he could to make sure no one was being hurt and that the debris wasn't really getting onto anyone. When Ultron and his two robo flunkies were transporting his body and there was a runaway train, Cap and even the come around Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were preventing any innocent life. And yeah what was the main concern of all the Avengers who weren't just fighting the robot army at the end? Making sure the people got on the Helicarrier (actually good to see that have a really useful actual point for once. Maybe this is just my limited knowledge of it but from what I've seen of it in the first movie and in cartoons the Helicarrier hasn't done anything near as useful as it was here) and that as Cap said not one life was lost. Yeah sorry if everyone is concerned with saving lives, and the only death is a hero saving another hero who was saving someone (more on that later) I don't see that as the sort of cruel terrible carnage you'd find in other sort of movies. Rather it's more a case of again terrible villains doing what they do and our team doing what they do. In fact I think this is the most I've ever seen of ANY movie of heroes trying to help out and save someone in the middle of a catasophrphe. Part of me thought it might be too much but again you need those sort of scenes to really show just how selfless and how dedicated these people are, and just how focused they are on their jobs.

Part of me thinks though that in a weird way, that's part of the reason why maybe this movie wasn't as enjoyable as the last or as some other movies. Granted Joss did try all he could especially with Wanda messing with the teams mind but if you actually have that group connectivity and them actually rorrolaing a lot as a team in the start it does kind of kill a lot of the tension. I mean yeah in the first movie you knew Hulk was going to smash Black Widow, Captain America and Iron Man weren't going to come to blows etc but it felt like more of a chance there. That is a weird compliment because you want to see the heroes develop and involve and become more of a team but maybe the freshness of the interactions for these films don't work knowing more where they come from. It's honestly something I don't even know if I should bring up because I don't like pointing out something that I feel is a problem but not even having a way to solve it because the moments of them as a team really do work. I like all of their coordination in the beginning and ending and all of the other various little missions. I even liked Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch joining up at the end which I guess felt sort of rushed but kind of like with Ultron's creation and thought process, you have to get across fast what's happening. I think it worked more for him because he was a machine while for them it was "we hate the Avengers because Tony Stark helped kill our family... but I guess he's better then you wanting to kill everyone so we should help and fight." Then again that was a good scene between Clint and Wanda trying to encourage her in the middle of the fight and I did like that's what got her courage up to actually really help contribute and be the one to take out the main Ultron body (yeah there was the straggler but you know what I mean) but I could see some being bothered by how rushed it is. Same with Quicksilver's death which I think was spoiled or talked a lot by people so it was sort of spoiled but then again I guess of everyone in the cast he was the one who had the "I'm going to die" on his forehead the most. I guess at least it was for a good cause but... I think Quicksilver is something Days of Future Past still did better. Then again at least this movie did a better job showing the guy's weaknesses and how he could of been used more and he still did have some really good speed moments (getting civilians out of the way from the runaway train, some guy shooting at him and him giving a "really guy" moment, speed knocking Captain America away and trying to pick up Thor's hammer and being flung) but nothing with a real wow factor to it. I guess Wanda wasn't as much wow either as her power to mess with people honestly probably could of been shown a bit better as yeah we see it really screw with half the members of the Avengers but I would of liked seeing bits of her more in their memories or something and more of her actual chaois magic but at least we'll probably see that in later films. Then again I always associate Wanda with how incredibly over powered she was in X-Men Evolution so that's always the bench mark of power I hold her to but I guess that's not something everyone else does and hey at least she did have some good moments.

Part of me also feels conflicted about the whole Bruce/Natasha relationship. I did like actually showing her backstory (Whedon did tease a lot with the ballet in the trailers which isn't used nearly as much as I thought it would) as why she would consider herself a monster and savage killer. It's been hinted at before but it's dived into well here though could still probably have more focus on but that'd be for a Black Widow movie which I'd still be down for. I also appreciate how the Bruce/Widow Relationship actually tied to the first movie with her picking him up and talking to him and her liking him for being gentle and not being combative and him appreciating her toughness and dedication. I'm not sure though if it was the most properly balanced in this movie though. This is a case of I don't know if they should of done less or added more as I could see the drawbacks of either one but something did seem off about it. Especially with how he left at the end. I don't know I can see why he'd still feel he was a monster, especially since he now has to be coaked out of not becoming the hulk by her but it doesn't feel like he did one particular thing to warrant this particular self exile. Then again maybe it's the realization of "she's always going to be about the mission first and with her there would be no rest either and that's what I need so it's what I have to go off and do" sort of thing. And if that's the angle then that makes sense and I can actually really get behind that. And hey both did have their good moments in the movie. People give Black Widow a lot of unfair crap for being the one without powers or really noteworthy special tools but honestly she had a lot of good moments from the motorcycle chase to taking out the bio liquid chamber (that does leave a whole in how Ultron had her and then just left her in prison without any guards... I get he was leaving her to die and "wanted someone to talk to" but I don't think we needed to honestly see her be kidnapped) to knocking away Ultron goons with a semi to breaking them down with light tonfas so yeah she still did her part.

As yeah that's where the positives really start: the action and comedy were still top aces here. I don't think we had anything as truly epic as some of the blows and hits from the last movie but it all flowed so well and there were a lot of great bits. My favorite were Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Hulk knocking through the buildings, Cap vs Ultron and yeah everyone taking on the Ultron bots at the end spinning the camera around as we see them breaking the bots apart one by one. Honestly I would of liked a lot more of that but eh might of gotten old if we kept seeing that. And yeah there was also a lot of great humor as well: everyone getting on Steve's case for the "language" remark and Tony constantly reminding him of that throughout the movie, Tony quipping on how they should take Clint off "life support", everyone trying to lift up Thor's hammer in their own various ways and Tony trying to scientifically ask how does one know whose worthy, some of Ultron's temper tantrums or him trying to act serious after being angry (To be fair thinking about it these did help him stand out more as a villain and honestly sans Loki he's probably so far the best baddie of the MCU we've got though I have a feeling not everyone will think that), Clint getting one over on Wanda and hitting her with an arrow since he won't be mind controlled again, Clint having a secret hidway house with a family that apparently only Natasha knew about with a wife who she thought would have a girl but instead had a boy (you'd have to watch the movie to get that one I admit), Nick Fury appearing in the garage and Tony wondering if he had anything actually useful to give them, everyone in shock of The Vision picking up Thor's hammer and Vision giving himself a cape, everyone suiting up as Vision and Thor just stand around, Natasha and Clint arguing driving the car to the helicarrier, those two agents of shield guy at the helicarrier (I admit I only saw the pilot of that show but I remember them from that though I have a feeling if I watched agents of shield more I'd get more of the references these movies make with them), Rhodie finally having a real story to brag about blowing away the Ultron bots, Thor leaving and Tony saying he keeps burning the lawn, etc. Really there's probably a lot more I'm forgetting or not mentioning (oh wait wanted to mention at the party one of the scientists wanting to hit on Thor and Thor saying Jane is better then Pepper... see I could keep going on with the jokes I at least chuckled or smiled at) but again see the movie yourself just giving some of my own personal stand outs.

So yeah again really solid movie that kept me invested all way through. Even at the end revealing the new Avengers team (I think Whedon just likes pissing off the fans cause he knows people want to hear Cap say "Avengers Assemble" but yeah still hasn't in either film as he was cut off in this one. BTW was that Captain Marvel at the end with the others... okay looked around and no it wasn't so don't give your hopes on that) and then Thanos picking up the Gaunlet finally deciding to get involved himself getting the stones (hey that means the Guardians are going to interact soon with the Avengers as Thor is looking for the stones and likely will come across them or they'll come to earth or something... point is 100% they have to be in Infinity War even more then they were before) really made me want to see more. Again doesn't have the freshness of the first movie and again this is one of those films where the ads and people's constant chatter really do spoil a lot but eh still really solidly enjoyable.

 

[Gold Guy]

I'll post my full review tomorrow, but I loved it. Whedon has done it again!

The cast is huge, but somehow never feels unwieldy, and they're all given a role or purpose.

Ultron, IMO, is a cooler villain than Loki, and I found him fascinating to watch.

The action scenes are a major step up from the first film. Hulkbuster vs Hulk is amazing, and worth the ticket alone. Might be too Transformers-ish for some, though.

Lots of world-building and foreshadowing, but unlike ASM2 never feels incoherent. Whedon makes it look so easy!

Hawkeye fans will be happy. Tons of development.

Not a fan of Bruce/Natasha, though. Maybe I'll get used to it.

Anyway, more in depth tomorrow.

 

[Dudley]

Whedon admitted he didn't want to do an after credit scene because he couldn't think of a good enough "joke" that'd top the Sharma scene from the original. I"m sure other ones will have it but yeah not this one.

That unfortunate especially because there I've seen a leak of one, but I guess it can be considered fake now.
Then again it's a good, then people can immediately head to the bathroom after the mid-credit scene. The last couple of Marvel movies weren't really worth sitting through the credits anyway.

 

[RoryWilliams]

I said it earlier in the other thread but I liked it a lot despite some flaws. The biggest one was too much stuff going on. Like WAY too much. I understand the Infinity Gauntlet subplot was important to set-up Avengers 3 and Thor: Ragnarok but it still felt at times like the story was being pulled in too many directions.

Also I totally called Pietro's death. There was a reason there's almost no merchandise for the poor kid!

Vision was absolutely awesome.

And the Klaue scenes have me craving a Black Panther movie now.

 

[reflection01]

Very good movie. Better than the first one. I thought this film did a great job integrating the entire universe and setting up for the future although it did try to do too much. I think this film would have benefited from being split into two films in May and August. We could have learned more about each character in the first part of the movie to set the pay off in the second. Tony and Bruce's relationship was only touched on at the end of Iron Man 3. I would have liked to see an Iron Man 3 post-TWS that included more on Tony and Bruce's efforts to build Ultron. Where did Cho fall in this?

I would have liked to see more of what Thor was doing on earth. He's the only character who seems to be using any type of secret identity on Earth. How does that work? Has he been back to Asgard since Dark World? As a result of these unanswered questions, his visions and his side mission with Selvig was particularly confusing and could have used more explanation.

Cap and Black Widow benefited from the fact TWS was the most recent MCU movie based on Earth and that the movie was so good and did a great job showcasing their characters. I felt like moviegoers who had watched Agent Carter were well-rewarded. Not by Peggy's cameo, but by having backstory about the Red Room. Sadly, Dottie from Agent Carter is the closest we'll get to a Black Widow film.

The Hawkeye scenes were great. So glad none of that was spoiled for me. It was great to learn more about his friendship with Natasha as well.

Ultron was a fantastic bad guy. He's a worthy addition to the top of the list of MCU bad guys with Loki and Fisk. The elements of his personality taken from Stark were great.

 

[Mr. Hypocrite]

I loved it.

Spoiler

Did not love Pietro dying. That sucks. But then again, I got the sensation that there was a lot more emphasis on Wanda through the story, so it makes sense. That being said, Pietro kicked ass for the time he had. When you're that fast, you don't really waste any time. I'm hoping someone still has some of that Kree revival blood from Agents of Shield in their pocket though.

 

[reflection01]

Good point. That's one way Agents of SHIELD hurts the movie product.

(spacing for the preview screen on the mobile app)

AOS has established that Fury had a TAHITI in order to bring an Avenger back to life. He used it on Coulson. Coulson was supposedly prepared to use it again. So why can't it be used on Pietro?

 

[the greenman]

Honestly folks, I found this to be just as disappointing as Amazing Spider-Man 2, and I liked that one just the same. Simply put, I left ASM2 thinking it was a convulted mess, but this one is the same, just well put together.

Have you ever been taken to a restaurant where you have all of this food in front of you and they had to explain how to properly go about eating what's in front of you. I have. As a comic fan, I guess I was just disappointed with the character developments in general. It felt like it was paint-by-the-numbers sequel to go out of their way to allow some characters shine, but the execution was poor.

1st off, I didn't care for Ultron. He got annoying real quick for me. The explanation of his personality being culled together from Tony/JARVIS and whatever head got from the internet, but I needed more of a motivation. Herein is where I will NOT put in the Hank Pym upset. However, I felt weird and bored listening to his villainous obligatory explanation. His greatest lines were the few from the trailer, what more do you need? Also, that initial introduction felt really rushed along, I do blame studio interference and time allotment. So directors cut, here I come.

I didn't really care for Klaue in this, felt too fan service and no substance. I don't think Fury should have been in this film at all after the events of Winter Soldier. The Vision and Dr. Cho felt forced in also. I remember someone behind asking if Vision was Silver Surfer. With Infinity Stone, had they been knowledgable could've mistaken him Adam Warlock. I felt the acting for both of the twins was pretty poor, as if they were standing around on a freshman football field.

I like what they did with Hulk and Widow. Very well done, though still upset about even mentioning Betty or his past for that reason. Didn't care for what they did with Clint, that really is one of the things that dropped my enthusiasm for the film. I like how they deliberately addressed Jane and Pepper no shows. It's funny, Thor seems to shine more effectively in ensemble piece.

They ended was expected but a little too Velveeta for me. Same goes with the After Cred scene, as it felt like the entire film, tacked on for a rush job.

 

[Hanshotfirst1138]

X-Men: Days of Future Past was better. No one will agree, but I'm standing by it.

 

[RoryWilliams]

X-Men: Days of Future Past was better. No one will agree, but I'm standing by it.

I'd agree, actually. Maybe it was just because Avengers and Winter Soldier were just top notch while the last few X-films (sans First Class) were either mediocre or sucked, but I probably liked DOFP better. Age of Ultron was still a ton of fun though.

 

[reflection01]

The quality of the genre is getting better so people are getting more picky. Marvel is doing for comic book films what Pixar did for animation.

 

[Gold Guy]

Anyway, back for my full review.

One thing I admire about Whedon is how he's able to juggle all these characters and sub-plots and still make this film so comprehensible. ASM2 this isnt. Almost every single character, like in the first film, get moments to shine and development. Even minor characters are usually there to fulfill cameo requirements. Some people will claim that there are too many characters, but I love it! Seeing Selvig, Falcon, War Machine, etc. It really feels like a universe that all these characters inhabit, one where any of them can pop up at any moment!

Whedon has also become a better director; the action scenes here blow the first film's out of the water, especially that Hulkbuster fight. That was amazing, and not just because I'm a huge robot fan and a huge Iron Man fan. I loved every second; it's worth the ticket price alone!

The dream sequences were also well done, with Black Widow's being the stand-out. It's the kind of scene you wouldn't expect from this film, I think. Strong stuff! I've heard some people say that Thor's was pointless, but frankly, that's only true if you don't like world building. The Avengers finally know about the Infinity Gems! That's important (the Guardians already knew, of course).

While I overall prefer the first film, this film does a better job of raising the stakes, I think, and also has the better villain. I know a lot of people love Loki, but to me, he never felt like a threat; he was a pawn. Ultron feels like a threat, and Spader's voice is delicious as the robot. I also like the personality the film gave him; it helps to set him apart from countless Transformers and Terminator robot villains.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were both welcome additions (though the latter was cooler in DoFP). Scarlet Witch in particular impressed me with her usage of powers. Vision was also great. He's one of those characters that make you go, "Oh my gosh. I'm actually seeing Vision, on the big screen, in a mainstream film! Just a few years ago, I would never have thought it possible!" Though, he could be in big trouble when Thanos arrives for the third film....

Anyway, the acting is great as usual (no miscasts), Hawkeye fans will be happy at all the development he gets (and that awesome speech in the climax), the musical score works, and Whedon fits in a funny troll moment at the veeerrrryyyy end. The ending will also address the complaints that the team isn't racially diverse. Whedon's dialogue is also sharp as ever.

Still, this film isn't for everyone. It's the least accessible MCU film to the general audience so far, and even some comic fans have claimed to be left a bit confused at some scenes. Pay attention, because apparently missing one line of dialogue can have you missing certain aspects.

Anyway, I think I've said all I need to. I very much enjoyed it, and I doubt I'll enjoy any other film this year quite this much!

EDIT: Whoops, missed one thing: I'm not a fan of Natasha/Bruce. Maybe I'll get used to it, but one thing I could have done without.

 

[brickrrb2]

I just saw it. and ...It ...Was.... SPECTACULAR! Sorry DC. But it's time to dig your own grave and wave that white flag. Because When Vision acts more like Superman than Superman himself You know it's licked.

 

[Hanshotfirst1138]

I kept waiting for Elizabeth Olsen to ask "Vere are moose and squirrel?" Her accent could've used some polishing .

 

[brickrrb2]

I was satisfied but do Confess I was hoping for that Spiderman cameo

 

[Wounded_Dragon]

Good point. That's one way Agents of SHIELD hurts the movie product.

(spacing for the preview screen on the mobile app)

AOS has established that Fury had a TAHITI in order to bring an Avenger back to life. He used it on Coulson. Coulson was supposedly prepared to use it again. So why can't it be used on Pietro?

A) Think there's room for him to still be alive
B) TAHITI got blowed up good.

 

[RoryWilliams]

I was satisfied but do Confess I was hoping for that Spiderman cameo

That Spider-Man cameo would have been a disappointment to sit through all those credits for.

Still, this film isn't for everyone. It's the least accessible MCU film to the general audience so far, and even some comic fans have claimed to be left a bit confused at some scenes. Pay attention, because apparently missing one line of dialogue can have you missing certain aspects.

I'm hoping there's a director's cut because I feel a lot of the confusion was from bad editing. Thor's plot in particular seems like there was some important exposition that ended up on the cutting room floor.

 

[BigEclipse]

X-Men: Days of Future Past was better. No one will agree, but I'm standing by it.

I will. As of right now, and even after AOU, Days of Future Past is still my favorite comic book movie.

 

[Silverstar]

I just saw it. and ...It ...Was.... SPECTACULAR! Sorry DC. But it's time to dig your own grave and wave that white flag. Because When Vision acts more like Superman than Superman himself You know it's licked.

I agree with what you said about Vision, but despite our objections, Batman V Superman will still most likely make a decent showing for itself.