TMNT Talkback: "Bishop's Gambit"

Ian

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Okay, so now the turtles are back on home on 2006 Earth it's time for some downtime, right. Good heavens, no. This episode: the return of Bishop and his kick-ass fighting.

TMNT Episode 3.24-"Bishop's Gambit" Written by Greg Johnson

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bad boy Bishop is back and making his move. His research demands a
mutated specimen with DNA closer to human DNA than the samples he
extracted from our four green heroes. A mutated RAT would fit the bill
perfectly! With it, he can finally create his genetically enhanced
super soldiers. Can the Turtles stop Bishop before he succeeds and
destroys Master Splinter in the process?
[/font]
[/font]

Talky!
 
I'd just like to be the first to point out that, once again, we have heard the word "God" on this show. (Twice in one episode, no less!)

Please keep your joygasms to a minimum.

Okay so...

- More semi on-screen death! I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The team of this show is FEARLESS.

- Leatherhead? When'd you get so smart? (Don't mind me, I missed his earlier appearance...)

- Bishop is CRAZY. And I don't think he's an alien, but I do think he might have empowered himself through genetic research or cybernetic implants.

- ... Wow. That Slayer thing is crazy. Predator thing going on... (And OF COURSE, Bishop clones himself...)

- Splinter kicking ass! It dosen't get any better than this.

- Well, except mabye impaling Bishop on a hook.

- ... Okay, mabye he's NOT human...

Five stars. Can't wait for Exodus. It looks like they're redeeming themselves from the lackluster "Turtles In Time" arc... I couldn't be happier.
 
This season is closing and it is closing with a vengeance! :evil:

Great, great episode! Leatherhead slaughtering the agents and going nuts, Splinter going one-on-one with Bishop, the Slayer/"Predator" of Bishop (the scene alone where his rapid punching drives Raphael into the wall was :eek: ), the usage of the word "God" twice in one episode, Bishop impaled on a hook, and and...

GAH! Too much to name! :zim:

Great to finally see Bishop reveal his true intentions. Now we know what kind of man(?) he is! :evil:

Something tells me that the Slayer/"Predator" will be back. :anime:

And next week's preview for "Exodus" looks incredible! I can't wait! :D
 
First off, let me say that Bishop is one hard to beat SOB. In some respects, he is more of a threat to the Turtles than the Shredder. Shredder is constantly annoyed by the Turtles interference while Bishop actually seeks out to take something away from the Turtles. In this episode, it was Master Splinter. Even Splinter had a hard time fighting him, even though it was a lot better than last time.

Bishop is a dark character altogether. Not only does he want to create an army of super soliders, he is willing to see that over half of the current human population ceases to exist. A genocidall (sp?) madman? I would think so. And did you see what Splinter did to him at the end? Ouch. We didn't see but I think when Bishop was leaving, I saw some kind of liquid coming down on him. Is it possible that he isn't human? From what that picture of President Grant shows, it's possible that he has been around for a while.

The boys fought hard in this one, even with Leatherhead's help. But I wish he would actually been in the lab with the guys. His strength would of easily beaten that Slayer. The boys had trouble with him. And I was suprised to see the Fugitoid back in a cyborg body. I'm glad he is with the boys. He is one of their most trusted friends and he helped them out a lot.

Finally, I want to talk about that preview to Exodous Part I. Oh. My. GOD. Let' see, we had the Turtles, Splinter, Bishop, Shredder, Karai, Hun, and even Chapman in their. I wonder why Bishop is thrown into that mess? Well, I'm guessing he knows that Shredder is a Ultrom. Another alien he wants to destroy? Possibly. Looks like Shredder wants to go to the Ultrom homeworld. And also, he looks to be fighting everyone in his Saki suit rather in the Shredder suit. Which seemed odd to me. Anyway, I'm REALLY looking forward to this upcoming two parter. Should cap off the season quite well.

Oh and I have a computer, so I was wondering if it would wrong for me to capture it and then upload it to YouSendIt so people have a chance to see it again? Would that be against the Terms of Service? Let me know if it's not and I'll do that right away.
 
The boys fought hard in this one, even with Leatherhead's help. But I wish he would actually been in the lab with the guys. His strength would of easily beaten that Slayer. The boys had trouble with him. And I was suprised to see the Fugitoid back in a cyborg body. I'm glad he is with the boys. He is one of their most trusted friends and he helped them out a lot.

The Fugitoid! I can't believe I forgot to mention him! :ack:
 
The only real problem I had with this episode was that Splinter was beating around Bishop one on one. It was proven in other episodes ("Worlds Collide Part Three", "Hun On The Run") Bishop is able to take on multiple problem and avoid them with ease. Then again, this kind of prove's my theory that Bishop is probably better on the defenisve/agility then actual straight on attacking, espically with a weapon. The claw weapon was pretty cool though. Otherwise, awesome episode. I'm glad this episode was as dark as I would hope it'd be. And I still don't really have an idea of what Bishop is. To survive being impaled on a hook though and leave there's defintley something subhuman about him. And I'm glad this episode revealed he dosen't know all the facts either (he stated that 1870 was the first time aliens invaded right? Well we know that The Utroms have been around for hundreds of years before that, not to mention that Meteor from "The Darkness Within" landing around Plymoth times).

Best Moments: Bishop's plan to weed out splinter, Letherhead going crazy on the guards, Dr. Honeycut's new body, the Turtles vrs the Slayer, Splinter vrs Bishop.

Grade: 4 Out of 5 Stars.
 
My jaw dropped when Bishop got impaled on that hook. Granted, I knew right away that they'd pull another Shredder, but it was still unbelievable to see him hanging there like that. My guess is Bishop's modified himself with all the alien dna material he's collected over the years. See I wasn't the only one who caught his lookalike standing beside President Grant.

The "Predator" Slayer was creepy. Would definitely like to see him upgraded and come after the Turtles again.

Leatherhead really tore those soldiers apart offscreen. They're really pushing the implied deaths this season.

Anyone notice that the train car the Turtles stole from Bishop was numbered 318? Season 3, episode 18 was Hun on the Run, when the Turtles got the train car.

Now for what I didn't like. The fight scenes were great, but they lacked the innovation that has become Bishop's trademark. I was hoping he'd pull some slick move with his jacket sleeves or something, but no such luck. Also, I'm not sure about Bishop's motivations. He seemed to get a little too maniacal for my tastes, and the ultimate plan to build a clone army, while completely in line with what we expect of him, just felt a little cliche.

Otherwise, solid 4/5. Looks like they're going all out next week with Exodus.
 
(he stated that 1870 was the first time aliens invaded right? Well we know that The Utroms have been around for hundreds of years before that, not to mention that Meteor from "The Darkness Within" landing around Plymoth times).

Bishop wasn't even born yet during those times I believe. So I don't think he could have known about the Utroms or the mind controlling alien from "The Darkness Within". It's possible that the UFO crash landing in the civil war era in the turtleverse was the first nationally recorded incident of aliens on earth. Either that or we have one big fat continuity error. :shrug:

The only real problem I had with this episode was that Splinter was beating around Bishop one on one. It was proven in other episodes ("Worlds Collide Part Three", "Hun On The Run") Bishop is able to take on multiple problem and avoid them with ease. Then again, this kind of prove's my theory that Bishop is probably better on the defenisve/agility then actual straight on attacking, espically with a weapon.

Come to think of it, Bishop really wasn't all that up to par with his skills when he fought Splinter this episode. Could be a slip-up on the writers part or it is possible that Bishop was so overconfident that he lost focus on his fighting skills. :shrug:
 
WOW. Man, when I saw Bishop getting impaled I was "WTF? did saw what I think saw?" . Sure they didn't exatcly show it but you got the idea of what happened to him. Man , can't wait for the repeat on CN.
 
Shades of Halloween: Bishop on the meat hook, then he's gone!!!

But seeing how his Slayer prototype had healing regenerative powers, I'm certain Bishop gave himself the "Wolverine" gene...as well as any other alien/mutant enhancements he's come across.

I'm certain we'll be seeing that Slayer wandering the sewers a la Zogg.

It was cool to see Leatherhead go apesh**
Honeycutt's got a new body, kinda like Brainiac.

sweet epsiode. hopefully they show both poart of exodus and don't hose us like they did w/ Big Brawl!
 
Best moments of the epsisode

- Leatherhead slaughtering the guards. I have images in my head of him biting off their heads and slashing the others, would have been interesting to see blood dripping from his teeth in the next scene.

- Bishop getting impaled. Not only was that a shock, but I had thought that maybe they would have killed him off here. Guess not.

- The Slayer pounding Raph a hundred times in the back, guess Raph must love having a shell.

Bad stuff:

- Bishop's overall plot isn't terribly new or exciting. Building a super clone army has been done many times before, I hope he uses the TMNT DNA for more than this. I did like how he'll use them to fight off alien invaders though.

- Bishop seemed to have a bit of trouble with Splinter in this ep. But I have to agree that he's probably better in the defensive position than offense.

----

Overall, now that they showed Bishop in the preview to the Exodus, it's understandable as to why they didn't have CN show it before this ep.
 
Grant, you old dog! You creator of clandestine government agencies, you. *playfully punches President Grant in the arm.*

So the E.P.F. has been around since the 19th century? That explains the somewhat corny name. New thread idea: E.P.F. vs. Cadmus.

Now for what I didn't like. The fight scenes were great, but they lacked the innovation that has become Bishop's trademark. I was hoping he'd pull some slick move with his jacket sleeves or something, but no such luck.
Maybe he didn't feel the need--"necessity is the mother of invention" and all that. Not an

Come to think of it, Bishop really wasn't all that up to par with his skills when he fought Splinter this episode. Could be a slip-up on the writers part or it is possible that Bishop was so overconfident that he lost focus on his fighting skills.
I thought he did well, considering his fight with Hun. Plus, we have to give Splinter credit; this is his second encounter with Bishop; one would expect to see him do better.

Also, I'm not sure about Bishop's motivations. He seemed to get a little too maniacal for my tastes, and the ultimate plan to build a clone army, while completely in line with what we expect of him, just felt a little cliche.
Bishop is a dark character altogether. Not only does he want to create an army of super soliders, he is willing to see that over half of the current human population ceases to exist. A genocidal madman?
I'd have to disagree here; I found his goals and motivations rational and, well, realistic. From what we've seen, humans are pretty low on the strengh and technology scale. Bishop's taking care of that.

Plus, I don't see him portrayed as genocidal, just very pragmatic. He mentioned that 57% statistic (which can be taken as true, depending on your mindset), but didn't really say he wanted or was willing to see it happen. He's also not completely against extraterrestials like H.A.T.E. was; he got chummy with the Federation, after all, and we know that it's not composed entirely of humans-looking aliens; he would have allied himself with the Triceratons if they'd approached him the way Blanque did. It seems he's just against aliens he sees as security threats.

Nitpick: would it kill the artists to stay consistent with the laser beam colors? At least they're keeping them yellow next episode, so one could say those are upgrades on the original Federation guns. But dammit, it bugs.

Anyone notice that the train car the Turtles stole from Bishop was numbered 318? Season 3, episode 18 was Hun on the Run, when the Turtles got the train car.
Actually, the captain said it was car 813. Still, I guess that's where they got it from.

Non-episode-specific thoughts:

Just how many hidden underground tunnels does NYC have, anyway? So far we have the hidden Foot Bunker (although that was farther underground), the Elyntian lair, the E.P.F. bases, and Bulvahart's "Hell".
 
The Big Bad said:
I'd have to disagree here; I found his goals and motivations rational and, well, realistic. From what we've seen, humans are pretty low on the strengh and technology scale. Bishop's taking care of that.

Plus, I don't see him portrayed as genocidal, just very pragmatic. He mentioned that 57% statistic (which can be taken as true, depending on your mindset), but didn't really say he wanted or was willing to see it happen. He's also not completely against extraterrestials like H.A.T.E. was; he got chummy with the Federation, after all, and we know that it's not composed entirely of humans-looking aliens; he would have allied himself with the Triceratons if they'd approached him the way Blanque did. It seems he's just against aliens he sees as security threats.
I think my main gripe with Bishop's motivations is that the writer and voice director didn't do it justice. The voice-acting for the bulk of season 3 has been very strong for 4Kids standards, but it seems like they can't rise above 'cartoon' acting and deliver real acting. If you'll allow me, a similiar scene with Amanda Waller in JLU's Doomsday Sanction really sells her cause, where Bishop does not. Waller and Bishop both want the same thing - the ability to defend Earth against extra-terrestial threats. But CCH Pounder really humanizes Waller so you can understand her fears. Bishop, on the other hand, is played for a mad scientist when both his character and voice suggest something darker and creepier. The Frankenstein homage/rip felt jarring and out-of-character.

Actually, the captain said it was car 813. Still, I guess that's where they got it from.
My bad. Could still be it, but maybe its not then.

Just how many hidden underground tunnels does NYC have, anyway? So far we have the hidden Foot Bunker (although that was farther underground), the Elyntian lair, the E.P.F. bases, and Bulvahart's "Hell".
Can someone answer me: is any sewer, in NYC or otherwise, actually big enough for human-sized beings to live in?
 
Simple Simon said:
Can someone answer me: is any sewer, in NYC or otherwise, actually big enough for human-sized beings to live in?
I live just outside of NYC, and I can say that... I'm not at all sure. According to legend, there are miles of unexplored subway and sewer tunnels running underneath the city, dating back to its founding.

Of course, also according to legend, we have aligators in the sewers.

In short: Probably, but it'd depend on what you call "living"...
 
BISHOP IS TEH UTROM!!!

Heh, jk...hopefully. Things I liked:

- Leatherhead slaughtering the troops.

- Return of the Fugitoid. I assume he is going to be a recurring character from now on.

- Bishop on the hook. For a second, I thought they were gonna kill him off. Good thing they didn't. I'm assuming he experimented on himself with the whole super solider thing to give him skills and a strong body.

- The preview. I knew they would give us a Shredder vs Bishop fight sometime. Can't wait for this one.
 
> Just how many hidden underground tunnels does NYC have, anyway? <

According to 'Beneath New York', a PBS show about NYC's infrastructures, there's actually quite a lot of subterranian constructions underneath that city.

> Can someone answer me: is any sewer, in NYC or otherwise, actually big enough for human-sized beings to live in? <

The sewers of Paris are definitely big enough (re that famous escape scene in 'Les Miserables'.) I don't think NYC's sewers are as large, but they do have plenty of abandoned subway tunnels.

BTW, I liked this episode too.
 
Okay, let's get the facts down shall we?

Pros:
-Splinter's line "No one should play god." OMG 4KiDs SEy gAwd on tV!!!!11 No matter how many logical reasons people give me for them getting away with such things on that, it still gets me everytime.

-Splinter vs Bishop. Loved the claw weapon. And Splinter still shows he's eating his bad-ass pie with ass-whuping cream.

-The Slayer. A lot of you people see a Predator homage but I see hybrid between Predator and Terminator. (Mostly the face)

-Genetic Bishop clones that take the place of over 50% of humans? Creeeepy.

-Leatherhead vs the guards. To think I actually liked original crazed aussie Leatherhead from the original 80s show before seeing him do this.

-Bishop getting impaled. Ouch.

Cons:
-Prof. Honeycutt. Great idea 4Kids, take away the emotion the ending to the Space Invaders arcs gave us by reviving this guy. I don't understand why cartoon writers kill of characters just so they can bring them back later. Or why game writers do that too. (::coughShadowtheHedgehogcough::)

-Bishop living. It's not so much the fact that he's not human like the Shredder as it is my previous comment. Don't kill off characters if you're planning to bring them back.

4/5
 
The sewers of Paris are definitely big enough (re that famous escape scene in 'Les Miserables'.) I don't think NYC's sewers are as large, but they do have plenty of abandoned subway tunnels.
They used to give tours of the Paris sewers. As for things under New York, well among many other things, they've got two giant water mains bored out of the rock to bring water into the city, and they are working on a third tunnel that will carry as much as the first two combined. New York is no stranger to suburban structures on a grand scale.

If you really want to know what can happen under a city... Well, the site is devoted to Minsk, and is in Russian, (and slow-loading) but check it out anyways. Click on 'PHOTOS' on the left and looke through Gallery 1 (and others, if you've got the time). You'll be surprised...
http://underminsk.narod.ru/index2.html



I didn't like this episode as much as I should have. For one thing, I never like it when government flunkies get killed--explicitely or implied. Especially by 'good guys' like leatherhead. And yeah, Bishop's fight was weak. Even his clone seemed to have only a brief showing. When you compare it what we saw in Hun on the Run...Well it just didn't seem like Bishop at all. And I didn't much like Bishop's plan/bakcstory either. He seemed like a different sort of character before. Now...He's just antother self-righteous black-ops guy willing to burn the village in order to save it. Such a downer...

But that looked like Bishop himself sanding there next to Grant. Explanation please?

Lastly, the title: Bishop's Gambit. Anywone else thing of the X-Men when they first heard/read that?
 
I taped Bishop's Gambit but haven't watched this episode yet so I haven't gone through the talkback where this might have been answered......

According to TVTome.com some of these have been airing first on Cartoon Network? And next Saturday's Exodus part 1 has already aired? When did that air? And will Exodus part 2 air in the coming week on Cartoon Network? And what what day and time? So many questions. :) And also according to TV Tome it's been confirmed that in Exodus part 2 it will be
the last we see of Shredder in the long term. Which to me is a good thing because maybe now Shredder being defeated will stick.
I'm so glad we're getting a fourth season. :D

The Clown Prince
 
The Clown Prince said:
I taped Bishop's Gambit but haven't watched this episode yet so I haven't gone through the talkback where this might have been answered......

According to TVTome.com some of these have been airing first on Cartoon Network? And next Saturday's Exodus part 1 has already aired? When did that air? And will Exodus part 2 air in the coming week on Cartoon Network? And what what day and time? So many questions. :) And also according to TV Tome it's been confirmed that in Exodus part 2 it will be
the last we see of Shredder in the long term. Which to me is a good thing because maybe now Shredder being defeated will stick.
I'm so glad we're getting a fourth season. :D

The Clown Prince
CN decided not to air them at the last moment. (They did the same thing with this episode)
 

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