"Toonami" News & Discussion Thread

[Cartoon X]

Er...what? I'm pretty sure they referenced the battle with Copy Rezo/Zanaffar in (R)evolution. Granted, it's been a while since I watched the series, but I'm pretty sure that the Zanaffar in Revolution is said to be the true embodiment of him or something like that, not that the battle with Copy Rezo/Zanaffar didn't happen.

 

[Light Lucario]

The reason I said they pretended the second half of the first season never existed is because Zanaffar is pretty much the primary focus of those episodes, and (R)evolution re-introduced it and had the whole crew acting like they'd never heard of the thing before, which means the writers of (R)evolution pretended Lina and company's journey in Sairaag and their confrontations with Copy Rezo and Zanaffar never happened. When I said (R)evolution was a re-hash of the first season, I should've said it was an attempt to replace what happened in the second half of that season, because that's exactly what it tried to do. I'm still baffled as to why the writers would do that instead of coming up with something new and different, and that is the main reason I was so disappointed with it.

I don't remember them acting like they never heard of Zanaffar before. Unless it was from Gourry, who couldn't remember anyone besides Lina, then that wouldn't really make much sense. Like I said, I haven't seen Revolution/Evolution-R in a long time, so I could be mistaken, but I do think that they referred to the battle with Copy Rezo and Zanaffar and they offered some kind of reason behind it. I personally would have preferred them focusing on something new instead of going back to Rezo, but I can see why that would be really disappointing. It wouldn't be the best Slayers series to put on Toonami, although airing Next, which I think is the best one, wouldn't work nearly as well without seeing the first series, but I'd be okay with it. It would be cool to see a Slayers series on TV. It is primarily a comedy series, as opposed to an action series, but it provides a really good blend of comedy and action, much more than GXP ever did from what I saw, so despite the problems with Revolution/Evolution-R, I think it would be a nice to see it air on the block.

 

[Gorbash]

I think TRY would've been a great series to start with, but apparently everyone hates that season.

 

[Light Lucario]

I think TRY would've been a great series to start with, but apparently everyone hates that season.

I actually like Try. It does have its problems too and it was for the best to stop with that season for awhile since it wasn't nearly as good as Next was, but I thought that it was pretty enjoyable. I went in watching it after hearing how much people disliked it, but I was fine with it for the most part. They could probably air Try without airing the other series, although some details would fly over people's head if they didn't see the first two, but I don't think it would be so bad to start airing that on Toonami either.

 

[The Collector]

I think TRY would've been a great series to start with, but apparently everyone hates that season.

I don't hate TRY, I thought it was pretty good for what it was, just not on the level of the first season or NEXT, and I'd take it over (R)evolution any day.

As for what I said before, it wasn't just Gourry who acted like he'd never heard of Zanaffar before(that would be expected) but everyone. Lina had heard of it before so she could explain what it was to the others (and the audience, of course), but none of them acted like they had actually fought the thing before, which was the main battle of the second half of the first season. Not something you'd just forget. Also, just so everyone knows, I felt the need to make sure I wasn't remembering wrong and saying stuff that was incorrect, so I popped in my dvd and watched where they explained Zanaffar, and sure enough, they acted like they'd never come across it other than the story. That's all I needed to convince me the writers were trying to replace the second half of the first season with (R)evolution, or at the very least, pretend it never happened. That disregard for the Slayers history irritates me greatly every time I think about it.

 

[Light Lucario]

I don't hate TRY, I thought it was pretty good for what it was, just not on the level of the first season or NEXT, and I'd take it over (R)evolution any day.

I think I liked Try a bit more than the first series, or at least some aspects of it, but I agree that it wasn't on the level of Next. I still wouldn't mind either series airing on Toonami, but Try would work pretty well too.

As for what I said before, it wasn't just Gourry who acted like he'd never heard of Zanaffar before(that would be expected) but everyone. Lina had heard of it before so she could explain what it was to the others (and the audience, of course), but none of them acted like they had actually fought the thing before, which was the main battle of the second half of the first season. Not something you'd just forget. Also, just so everyone knows, I felt the need to make sure I wasn't remembering wrong and saying stuff that was incorrect, so I popped in my dvd and watched where they explained Zanaffar, and sure enough, they acted like they'd never come across it other than the story. That's all I needed to convince me the writers were trying to replace the second half of the first season with (R)evolution, or at the very least, pretend it never happened. That disregard for the Slayers history irritates me greatly every time I think about it.

I don't know if that would mean that they were trying to replace the second half of the first season with Revolution/Evolution-R. It felt more like another version of the conflict with Rezo, but not that they only faced Zanaffar in Revolution/Evolution-R. Since they referred to Next in the final battle, I don't see why they would pretend that the second half of the first series never happened, especially when Amelina and Sylphiel weren't even introduced until the second half of the first series.

 

[Ishtar]

I'll just chime in on the whole Slayers debate. From a business perspective, Revolution/Evolution-R is much more attractive for two main reasons: it's NEW and it's HD. You can compare the content and quality of the actual shows as much as you like, but those two main factors I mentioned are things Toonami would care about. One Piece Season 4 being the start of the HD episodes was stated as a main reason why Toonami and FUNimation agreed to chose to start there rather than air the dated Season 1 episodes. I suspect it would be a similar case with Slayers. True Slayers never aired before on Toonami or even Cartoon Network in any capacity, but it was brought up before that Revolution/Evolution-R is pretty fresh to jump into. Plus, the earlier Slayers series are even older and more dated looking than even the earlier episodes of One Piece. Heck, it's even older than Bebop, which really only gets a free pass because of how iconic it is and the animation still holds up. Of course, I honestly don't expect Toonami to pick up Slayers at all, as nice as it would be.

 

[Light Lucario]

I'll just chime in on the whole Slayers debate. From a business perspective, Revolution/Evolution-R is much more attractive for two main reasons: it's NEW and it's HD. You can compare the content and quality of the actual shows as much as you like, but those two main factors I mentioned are things Toonami would care about. One Piece Season 4 being the start of the HD episodes was stated as a main reason why Toonami and FUNimation agreed to chose to start there rather than air the dated Season 1 episodes. I suspect it would be a similar case with Slayers. True Slayers never aired before on Toonami or even Cartoon Network in any capacity, but it was brought up before that Revolution/Evolution-R is pretty fresh to jump into. Plus, the earlier Slayers series are even older and more dated looking than even the earlier episodes of One Piece. Heck, it's even older than Bebop, which really only gets a free pass because of how iconic it is and the animation still holds up. Of course, I honestly don't expect Toonami to pick up Slayers at all, as nice as it would be.

With One Piece, the amount of time it would take to get up to the HD episodes is probably just as much, if not a larger one, as to why they started with season four. Revolution/Evolution-R is new and as much as I enjoy the older series, the animation really hasn't aged that well and it would look jarring to see the older animation along with the other shows on the block, so that would work against any of the first three series from airing. The chances of Toonami getting any Slayers series probably isn't that good and Revolution/Evolution-R would most likely be chosen if they picked it up, but it would be nice to see one of the series on the block. They do have a lot of other options from just Funimation alone, so hopefully whatever show they pick for after Eureka Seven finishes its run will be good.

 

[The Collector]

I don't know if that would mean that they were trying to replace the second half of the first season with Revolution/Evolution-R. It felt more like another version of the conflict with Rezo, but not that they only faced Zanaffar in Revolution/Evolution-R. Since they referred to Next in the final battle, I don't see why they would pretend that the second half of the first series never happened, especially when Amelina and Sylphiel weren't even introduced until the second half of the first series.

I shouldn't say replace, that's the wrong word. It was more that they acted like the second half of the first season never happened, and I found that disrespectful to the series as a whole. It irritated me a great deal and I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Gorbash]

Revolution was the first Slayers I ever saw, and, as a new viewer, it left a bad taste in my mouth. This is mostly because of how rushed the season was. It was ridiculous. At least with the first season you could pull that stunt because it was new, but splitting Revolution and Evolution R into two separate series was a big mistake. And don't even get me started on that annoying rabbit critter. I think most new viewers will enjoy the early episodes of Revolution, but when that comes to an end, they'll probably be left with a bad taste in their mouths.

Haven't seen Evolution R yet though.

 

[BrianLeague]

It looks like IGPX will continue to be at 2 AM, at least for now.

 

[Light Lucario]

Revolution was the first Slayers I ever saw, and, as a new viewer, it left a bad taste in my mouth. This is mostly because of how rushed the season was. It was ridiculous. At least with the first season you could pull that stunt because it was new, but splitting Revolution and Evolution R into two separate series was a big mistake. And don't even get me started on that annoying rabbit critter. I think most new viewers will enjoy the early episodes of Revolution, but when that comes to an end, they'll probably be left with a bad taste in their mouths.

Haven't seen Evolution R yet though.

Perhaps it helps that I don't see Revolution and Evolution R as two separate series. There are a few things resolved in Revolution before Evolution R, but honestly, Revolution's structure reminded me of how the first half of a Slayers series usually goes, while Evolution R felt more like how the second half of the series is structured. Plus, they aren't really stand-alone series like the first three were. Revolution's main storyline isn't resolved until Evolution R. There is a bit of a pacing problem in both halves, which does lead to a bit of an anticlimactic moment in Evolution R I mentioned earlier, but it really came off to me at the end as two halves of the same series, rather than two separate series. Though, since I watched through the first three series well before getting Revolution/Evolution R, that probably helped in that regard.

Revolution/Evolution R certainly wouldn't be the best introduction to the Slayers universe as it can be pretty disappointing/lackluster in some areas and I agree that Pokota can be annoying, but I didn't think it was that bad. It was enjoyable for the most part and I wouldn't mind seeing it on Toonami. It would provide a much better balance of action and humor than the few episodes of GXP I saw did at least. They'd probably prefer to go for a more action based series instead of a comedy series with a blend of action in it, but it could work.

 

[Cartoon X]

It looks like IGPX will continue to be at 2 AM, at least for now.

Like that was in doubt. It's only been one week of a incredibly terrible ratings drop after a high-performing show. The trend will have to continue for at least a couple of weeks a la Tenchi Muyo! GXP before they consider moving it down.

 

[Light Lucario]

Like that was in doubt. It's only been one week of a incredibly terrible ratings drop after a high-performing show. The trend will have to continue for at least a couple of weeks a la Tenchi Muyo! GXP before they consider moving it down.

Exactly. GXP had at least two or three weeks of poor ratings before putting it in the 3AM slot. They would probably want to give IGPX at least a couple of more weeks before considering changing it. They might give it more time just because of how it is a Toonami original series and they probably had a hard time getting the rights back just to air it.

 

[DeathFog]

The reason I said they pretended the second half of the first season never existed is because Zanaffar is pretty much the primary focus of those episodes, and (R)evolution re-introduced it and had the whole crew acting like they'd never heard of the thing before, which means the writers of (R)evolution pretended Lina and company's journey in Sairaag and their confrontations with Copy Rezo and Zanaffar never happened. When I said (R)evolution was a re-hash of the first season, I should've said it was an attempt to replace what happened in the second half of that season, because that's exactly what it tried to do. I'm still baffled as to why the writers would do that instead of coming up with something new and different, and that is the main reason I was so disappointed with it.

Your disappointment is unfounded. This may be a shocker to you, a so-called fan of Slayers, but the entire Zanaffar arc of Revolution is Canon material from the original Novels. Another shocker: the ending arc from the first series is only ~1/3 canon. Amelia is not even introduced until after the Copy Rezo bit in the Novels, which was..anticlimactic. So, that is not in fact the reason why R_Evolution_R is bad. It's bad because it is a terrible mixture of canon novel elements that they skipped in Slayers/Next, that they had to heavily retcon to make work. The Zanafar and Zumma bits are definitely canon. I can't read beyond the eighth novel, so I don't know if the Bits with [strike]Zenagata[/strike]Wizer, or Rezo have any cannoness because Tokyopop stopped releasing the novels at 8. Pakota is not Canon.

The Reason R_Evolution_R is bad is threefold:
1. Pakota.
2. Bad retconning.
3. Bad English dubbed portrayals of Xelloss and Lina. Xelloss needs to sound Scheming and devious and MS doesn't deliver. Lina needs to sound sharp and almost shrill, but MS made her sound happy-cutesy instead. Cutesy Lina does not work in English. (Evolution was better voiced than Revolution, except those episode where Eric Stuart was clearly sick).

There is no reason to think that R_Evolution_R has better animation than previous series. Digital Animation and progressive scan widescreen are nice and all, but the actual animation was lackluster. NEXT and TRY both have better animation. There is nothing particularly wrong with the animation of Slayers other than needing some high quality de-interlacing and remastering (certain characters do need redubbing in the first 13 episodes.) Slayers would do fine on Toonami. Slayers Revolution would not.

 

[Sketch]

I didn't imagine Soul Eater scoring 0.5 with 18-49 at 1:30AM. If they had thrown on another premiere after it besides IGPX it may have scored in the high 0.4's also beating Bleach and Naruto that night. On one hand I do feel a new show should air ahead of Soul Eater (and Naruto for that matter) but if they can draw higher ratings than a nicher show in those slots then 2AM premieres of a nicher show would probably work out better.

2AM premieres don't seem ideal from a traditional standpoint but when you consider the ratings a 2AM premiere could get following Soul Eater and keep in mind most premieres would also be on AS on-demand and the Adult Swim video website so the time they air isn't nearly as troublesome as it once was.

The more ideal scenario would be for Toonami to gain another half hour to an hour before Midnight but if the 2AM hour drops like a rock after Soul Eater because of IGPX or a lack of something "new" then the argument for expanding Toonami gets a lot weaker.

Though I'm curious what you guys think would help stop the bleeding right now if IGPX continues to lose a lot of viewers from Soul Eater. If they don't want to premiere something else at 2AM they could just swap ThunderCats and IGPX for now or even bump up Eureka 7 for it's last episodes but if they supposedly do have another show lined up that was going to replace GXP then adding it sooner than later would be advisable.

 

[Gorbash]

Your disappointment is unfounded. This may be a shocker to you, a so-called fan of Slayers, but the entire Zanaffar arc of Revolution is Canon material from the original Novels. Another shocker: the ending arc from the first series is only ~1/3 canon. Amelia is not even introduced until after the Copy Rezo bit in the Novels, which was..anticlimactic. So, that is not in fact the reason why R_Evolution_R is bad. It's bad because it is a terrible mixture of canon novel elements that they skipped in Slayers/Next, that they had to heavily retcon to make work. The Zanafar and Zumma bits are definitely canon. I can't read beyond the eighth novel, so I don't know if the Bits with [strike]Zenagata[/strike]Wizer, or Rezo have any cannoness because Tokyopop stopped releasing the novels at 8. Pakota is not Canon.

The Reason R_Evolution_R is bad is threefold:
1. Pakota.
2. Bad retconning.
3. Bad English dubbed portrayals of Xelloss and Lina. Xelloss needs to sound Scheming and devious and MS doesn't deliver. Lina needs to sound sharp and almost shrill, but MS made her sound happy-cutesy instead. Cutesy Lina does not work in English. (Evolution was better voiced than Revolution, except those episode where Eric Stuart was clearly sick).

There is no reason to think that R_Evolution_R has better animation than previous series. Digital Animation and progressive scan widescreen are nice and all, but the actual animation was lackluster. NEXT and TRY both have better animation. There is nothing particularly wrong with the animation of Slayers other than needing some high quality de-interlacing and remastering (certain characters do need redubbing in the first 13 episodes.) Slayers would do fine on Toonami. Slayers Revolution would not.

Really now? No wonder it seemed like such a mess during that ending. They should've just kept ignoring that plot and just adapt some other novel. Oh well.

To be perfectly honest, when I first heard Xellos in English I kind of thought he was just a little generic. Then I heard David Moo's portrayal, and I know I'll get flack for this but, I thought his acting was pretty good. He got into the characters pretty well, and while his voice was innappropriate I thought he managed to handle that by acting as mischievous and sinister as he really could.

Lisa Ortiz is still a good Lina to me, even in Revolution, but it's obvious that she's played Amy Rose for too long. However, if she gets better in Evolution then maybe I can look forward to that.

The first season though I wouldn't show on Toonami. The acting in those early episodes is ridiculously subpar, and the animation is bad. I mean, really bad. Just in comparison to the later three seasons, it really dropped the ball.

 

[Cartoon X]

Though I'm curious what you guys think would help stop the bleeding right now if IGPX continues to lose a lot of viewers from Soul Eater. If they don't want to premiere something else at 2AM they could just swap ThunderCats and IGPX for now or even bump up Eureka 7 for it's last episodes but if they supposedly do have another show lined up that was going to replace GXP then adding it sooner than later would be advisable.

If the "new" show is an older title than 2am premieres could be fine. However, I doubt that they will add any more new series until Eureka 7 ends, unless by some miracle they allow Toonami to get the 11pm hour.

If IGPX continues to do poorly I imagine the lineup will shift to something like this:
2am Eureka 7
2:30am Thundercats
3am IGPX
3:30am Symbionic-Titan

As for the Slayers debate...eh, I dunno, I liked Revolution and Evolution-R. Evolution-R in particular was pretty great until the last episode which was a lame way to end the series. Pakota is annoying sometimes, but I feel he mellowed out a little bit in Evolution-R and grew to like him better. Both series have rather inconsistent levels of quality per episode, but they certaintly aren't awful enough to be villanized the way I feel most Slayers fans do.

In any case, if Toonami was to air any Slayers series it would be Revolution/Evolution-R. They have already said they aren't going after any show older than Cowboy Bebop, so the original Slayers trilogy is completely out.

 

[Light Lucario]

If the "new" show is an older title than 2am premieres could be fine. However, I doubt that they will add any more new series until Eureka 7 ends, unless by some miracle they allow Toonami to get the 11pm hour.

If IGPX continues to do poorly I imagine the lineup will shift to something like this:
2am Eureka 7
2:30am Thundercats
3am IGPX
3:30am Symbionic-Titan

Yeah, I could see them doing that if IGPX continues to get low ratings. A part of me would like that since I'd probably just go to sleep after Eureka Seven. It would be great if they could get the 11PM slot, but since that isn't going to happen anytime soon, they won't be airing a new show until Eureka Seven ends.

As for the Slayers debate...eh, I dunno, I liked Revolution and Evolution-R. Evolution-R in particular was pretty great until the last episode which was a lame way to end the series. Pakota is annoying sometimes, but I feel he mellowed out a little bit in Evolution-R and grew to like him better. Both series have rather inconsistent levels of quality per episode, but they certaintly aren't awful enough to be villanized the way I feel most Slayers fans do.

In any case, if Toonami was to air any Slayers series it would be Revolution/Evolution-R. They have already said they aren't going after any show older than Cowboy Bebop, so the original Slayers trilogy is completely out.

I agree. I liked Revolution/Evolution-R. They weren't perfect and I can definitely see why some people would see them as lackluster compared to the other series, but I enjoyed them and Evolution-R, despite some of the anticlimactic moments like with the ending, was a good step up from Revolution. Although, the whole bit about the novels and what they choose to adapt them would explain a couple of problems. If really was a problem for the creative staff, then they just should have made a brand new original storyline instead like what they did in Try instead. I don't remember the Toonami crew saying that they wouldn't air any show older than Cowboy Bebop, but that would make sense give how a lot of older series would be either expensive or the animation wouldn't age well.

 

[Ishtar]

I didn't imagine Soul Eater scoring 0.5 with 18-49 at 1:30AM. If they had thrown on another premiere after it besides IGPX it may have scored in the high 0.4's also beating Bleach and Naruto that night. On one hand I do feel a new show should air ahead of Soul Eater (and Naruto for that matter) but if they can draw higher ratings than a nicher show in those slots then 2AM premieres of a nicher show would probably work out better.

2AM premieres don't seem ideal from a traditional standpoint but when you consider the ratings a 2AM premiere could get following Soul Eater and keep in mind most premieres would also be on AS on-demand and the Adult Swim video website so the time they air isn't nearly as troublesome as it once was.

The more ideal scenario would be for Toonami to gain another half hour to an hour before Midnight but if the 2AM hour drops like a rock after Soul Eater because of IGPX or a lack of something "new" then the argument for expanding Toonami gets a lot weaker.

Though I'm curious what you guys think would help stop the bleeding right now if IGPX continues to lose a lot of viewers from Soul Eater. If they don't want to premiere something else at 2AM they could just swap ThunderCats and IGPX for now or even bump up Eureka 7 for it's last episodes but if they supposedly do have another show lined up that was going to replace GXP then adding it sooner than later would be advisable.

This is what I've been saying. I am in the believer of having 2am premieres, because it opens up the door for a lot more premieres. If Soul Eater can continue getting the ratings it gets at 1:30am, imagine how a 2am premiere would do right after? Those later hours need to be freshened up somehow, because what's the point in a 6 hour Toonami if more than half of the lineup remains to be reruns of the same shows over and over again? The only thing I don't want them doing is pushing One Piece down to a later slot to make room for a new show, because that would ruin the entire point of having the Big 3 Shonen Jump titles airing together, and One Piece deserves to stay in an earlier slot.