When did Marvel start to pass DC?

[macattack]

Here's something everyone's forgetting: Marvel had next to nothing to do with Spectacular Spider-Man. It was virtually all Sony. The most Marvel could do was say "yes" or "no" to stuff Sony and Greg Weisman wanted to do. Otherwise they couldn't do much to influence the series.

As a result, it's a stretch to call SSM a "Marvel" series.

 

[suss2it]

Here's something everyone's forgetting: Marvel had next to nothing to do with Spectacular Spider-Man. It was virtually all Sony. The most Marvel could do was say "yes" or "no" to stuff Sony and Greg Weisman wanted to do. Otherwise they couldn't do much to influence the series.

As a result, it's a stretch to call SSM a "Marvel" series.

By that same token DC had nothing to do with Young Justice. That was all Greg Weisman, Brandon Vietti & Warner Bros since technically its and the most DC can do is say "yes" or "no" to stuff WB, Weisman & Vietti wanted to do. Same with pretty much all the DC toons dating back to B:TAS.

But either way for me with the cancellation of Young Justice & Green Lantern I don't watch any DC toons since Teen Titans Go doesn't look like something I'd ever wanna watch. With Marvel I can at least stomach Ultimate Spider-Man, and Avengers Assemble definitely has potential, so on that front Marvel wins for me.

Hell right now I'd say Marvel is winning on almost every single front. The Dark Knight trilogy is great and Man of Steel is pretty good, but that's it. Green Lantern wasn't that good and Jonah Hex just looked terrible so I didn't even bother with that. In the comics world, Marvel's definitely killing it there too. DC right now seems to have too strong of an editorial control which has resulted in aborted storylines, general confusion and tons of creative talent jumping ship.

Right now I'd say DC's only better than Marvel when it comes to videogames & direct to video movies. For videogames they have the incredibly successful Arkham series, with "Arkham Origins" having a lot of hype right now, and looking pretty awesome. And of course the DTVs which they release like 3-4 a year compared to Marvel's 0. And when Marvel finally did decide to start doing those again they started with the mediocre Iron Man anime movie. Oh and digital comics, DC wins that too, since all their weekly series are pretty good, and Marvel doesn't really have any digital first comics right now.

 

[Aang]

Good points suss2it. Just to add to this, it seems as if relative marketing and visibility between Marvel and DC has changed since BTAS first aired. I remember a fairly well known media figure making a comment about Iron Man and the Avengers. He was saying that when he grew up evereybody knew Superman, Batman , Wonder Woman, even Aqua Man. But no one, in his circles, knew who Iron Man or any of the Avengers were. Now Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and Nick Fury are as recognizable to kids and the public in general as are their DC counterparts.

Did Marvel's characters just recently become more interesting? Honestly, I can not answer that. In my knowledge of Marvel and DC characters, I probably have more in common with the average person in the general public than I do with some of the people on this board. My knowledge of Captain America goes back only to Brubaker, Ultimate Avengers I and II, and CA The First Avenger. My knowledge of Iron Man pre RD Jr. is scarce. While apart from general mythology, my Thor history is the same as that of Captain America and Iron Man plus a few Straczynski tales.

For a while, DC had consistent and supportive platforms for its animation: Kids WB/CW weekday afternoons plus Saturday morninngs and the Cartoon Network. Most of their animated series were getting 20-26 episode seasons for at least the first two seasons plus any additional seasons that were provided. Meanwhile, Marvel shows were all over the place and they were only getting standard 13 episode seasons. There was even a animated Spider-Man series on MTV.

Now with Disney showing Marvel animation series exclusively on Disney XD, there is a consistent platform for Marvel series to be found somewhat similar to what DC has/had with the Cartoon Network. The fact that Disney XD may be available in less homes than is the Cartoon Network does not mitigate that fact. Marvel animation now has a home, a somewhat protective environment, where its shows now have a better chance of achieving longer runs. If this was the case with Fantastic Four WGA, I would not be surprised if it would have aired for several seasons.

DC has always provided great complete season DVDs for its shows, while Marvel did not. But Marvel has noticeably improved on that front.

Plus with Disney owning Marvel, now Marvel can produce live action series for it characters, similar to what DC had on WB/CW with Smallville (10 seasons) and now Arrow.

There are a few other things that could be said, but I am trying not to be verbose. Combine all of this with some level of an attempt at correlation with the successful movie franchises, and all accompanying merchandise, and the answer to when Marvel started to pass DC becomes clearer.

 

[the greenman]

I think we can thank MARVEL for running with the proverbial pack, due to their DTV department going at it with DC's DTV department. We had a good run there for awhile. The creative teams on both sides were rarely both on creative highs:

DC had:
Superman: Doomsday (2007) Bruce W. Timm, Lauren Montgomery, and Brandon Vietti (veteran training two up&comers)
Justice League: The New Frontier (2008) Dave Bullock (veteran animator)
Wonder Woman (2009) Lauren Montgomery (she came into her own in these two films)
Green Lantern: First Flight (2009) Lauren Montgomery

MARVEL had:
Ultimate Avengers (2006)
Ultimate Avengers 2: Rise of the Panther (2006)
Invincible Iron Man, The (2007) Frank Paur (veteran animator going back to BTAS and GARGOYLES)
Doctor Strange (2007)
Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow (2008) (Another director who came into their own through both WB)
Hulk Vs. (2009) (Sam Lui and Frank Paur makes for great combo of vetern and training. Sam Lui as we saw got his footing at WB)

 

[ShockDingo]

People have covered what I feel, but yea, comics wise, I've always been more of a Marvel fan. Cartoon wise, I've loved both of the company's offerings, it's just that DC always had the edge. I'm severely disappointed at where things are with Marvel animation. When I first started watching Wolverine and the X-men, I felt a few rough patches, but immensely enjoyed the show. I felt that this was the first big step in the right direction, then came Spectacular Spider-man and blasted my socks to the Negative Zone. Avengers came and just throttled my brain into AwesomeJelly...but then, these shows died and have been replaced with lackluster offerings.

I know the old chestnut is "you're not the target audience!" but that should never be an excuse for a mediocre product. Too many times, these in charge underestimate kids intelligence and appreciation for a great story. When me and my sister were kids we loved every minute of X-men and Batman the animated series. We didn't get bored and want simple one-shot episodes. I miss story arcs and just a more involved product. My only hope is that with the new X-men features (Wolverine & Days of the Future Past) a new show is greenlit and learns from the current shows' mistakes.

 

[King_of_doom]

You can say that Marvel was going for the right path with Wolverine and the X-Men, Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: EMH, probably not passing over DC but would have gone on the same level of quality with DC's cartoons till Jeph Loeb and Man of Action enter and Marvel went downhill once more with Ultimate Spider-Man and if what i saw same goes with Avengers Assemble, it's like they have gone backwards and return to the 90's where most of Marvel cartoons where bad.

 

[Medinnus]

You can say that Marvel was going for the right path with Wolverine and the X-Men, Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: EMH, probably not passing over DC but would have gone on the same level of quality with DC's cartoons till Jeph Loeb and Man of Action enter and Marvel went downhill once more with Ultimate Spider-Man and if what i saw same goes with Avengers Assemble, it's like they have gone backwards and return to the 90's where most of Marvel cartoons where bad.

While I agree emotionally with everything you said, I think its a little premature to judge the output of Marvel Studios by one show. Maybe a year or two from now, we will be able to make a more informed judgement, but as of today, I think its premature to come to judgment on Avengers Assemble and Hulk SMASH.

I think that the huge body of work from DC - the series, the DVD movies, etc. - is so massive, and the quality so consistently high, that I don't think we can say Marvel has over-taken or surpassed DC. Granted, I like USM better than the idiotic Teen Titans Go, but that's really only one data point. Beware the Batman has yet to be seen, likewise MAA and SMASH - and while its possible that BEWARE THE BATMAN could stink on ice and MAA and SMASH be absolutely wonderful, DC still has a slate of DVD releases and Marvel has none.

 

[TheAmazingJustin]

Marvel started to pass DC when it entered the Grand Prix.

 

[Gold Guy]

Yeah, as of now, Marvel animation has nothing on DC animation, IMO. And it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon.

 

[Medinnus]

Yeah, as of now, Marvel animation has nothing on DC animation, IMO. And it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon.

Unfortunately, I am forced to agree, although the idiocy of Teen Titans comes close to evening the odds - in a race to the bottom.

 

[Monte]

Marvel pass DC? No they haven't, they just get more attention because Marvel is supported by a company that seems to actually WANT them to succeed. They may not put marvel on their main channel but they do seem to work more towards promoting it as part of Disney XD. This is unlike cartoon network which has been handling DC nation VERY poorly; the shows and the block seem to get very little promotion. The exception to this would be Teen Titans Go, but i can't help but note how they premiere episodes on tuesday night rather than premiering episodes on DC nation; DC nation's ratings have been doing poorly and premiering TTG on DC nation could seriously help the ratings. It just seems clear that CN is more concerned with promoting comedy shows than they are of promoting DC shows in general. Heck, the fact that they find Tuesday night to be a better night to premiere TTG episodes only makes me think that they KNOW saturday morning was NOT the best choice for DC Nation. Also, TTG gets reruns throughout the week where as other DC shows don't seem to get seen outside DC nation. With Marvel shows i do think i recall them all getting more reruns throughout the week. It's like CN treats airing DC shows more like an obligation rather than something they actually WANT.

Heck another thing i think that's interesting about the Marvel universe block is how Disney gave them 1.5 hours even when they only air 2 shows, while CN gave DC just 1 hour; It allows the Marvel block to have more extra content to help it feel more like a Block as opposed to just airing a couple of shows back to back. It also shows Disney willing to do more for Marvel since its kinda like they are sacrificing an extra half hour to them so that they can have room for that extra content; and that extra time works out like it did today since it gave them time to air the two part premeire of Hulk while also airing a new episode of AA

However, that's only why it might SEEM like Marvel has passed DC. The reason they haven't is because DC has been making better shows. The quality of Marvel Animation has been slipping ever since Loeb took over; Ultimate spiderman can be painful to watch and Avengers Assemble and Hulk agents of Smash are looking like they may just be mediocre at best. Young Justice and Green Lantern however were fantastic shows in their own right and Teen Titian's Go is a solid comedy series; Beware the Batman shows some promise, but its still a tough to call at this point. Frankly if CN actually CARED about DC nation, Young Justice and Green Lantern would have both gotten renewed for a new season, and TTG would be premiering episodes on the block. Honestly, CN's treatment of DC's action shows make me think that DC should start exploring other networks like Nick to see what they would offer them; or heck the Hub is still way behind the big three but they seem like they would atleast CARE.

So in short, Marvel has NOT passed DC when it comes to animation. If Marvel however had kept up the momentum it had with WatXM, spectacular spiderman, Avengers:EHM, i probably would have said they either matched or even surpassed DC in animation; But until they get back that quality, i say DC has the edge. DC makes better shows, Marvel just gets more support and promotion from its network.

Though I might also Say the success of the movies help bring more attention to marvel in general, so that's another contributing factor

 

[Gold Guy]

For now, discounting shows and only counting DTV films, DC is still winning, IMO. Thor: Tales of Asgard was meh, Technovore was okay, and the upcoming Iron Man and Hulk film seems....not so great, while DC has (mostly) been hitting them out of the park.