Why is Superman so weak?

[Dusty]

It's funny I find it the complete opposite, the show's quality went out the window after Season One. (The dialog and just so many other things were so poorly done compared to the first season.) Also just because the creators agreed with some fans that Superman was a tad weak is kind of an opinion. Now before I get attacked... let me explain why I say that... the only way it would be a fact would be is if DC or BT and Co. came out and said that "Superman was portrayed completely that way on purpose, because that is Superman's power level." But they didn't say that, they said they didn't realize they made him SO weak. They essentially did not mean to make him as weak as he came across sometimes, and the thing is they did the same thing with the rest of the team. GL was owned in his own episodes "In Blackest Night." and in "Hearts and Minds." And it appears that people don't seem to remember or see that J'onn was by far portrayed the weakest, other than in a small part of "A Knight of Shadows." and a small scene in "Task Force X." Other than those small moments he was unconscious most of the series, lol. And don't get me started on Flash and WW.... people just focus on Superman I guess because he is the most powerful but wasn't as aggressive and gruff as he was in STAS, or they missed Tim Daly and seeing how Supes wasn't a God in the series made their opinion of him being weak even more strong.

I know I am in the minority here and will be told I am in denial or something as: "the creators said so." But I don't read that statement above or hear the actual interview of them saying "We made Superman weak on purpose or because we wanted to." Either way, I still think Superman did better in JL Season One than in his own show... but that is just my small insignificant opinion, carry on...


D.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Dusty,

You don't need to belittle your own opinion.You're just as entitled as anyone here to have one, so if you want to disagree with someone, I encourage you to do so unapologetically.

Now there are at least two ways to approach the question of whether or not Superman was too weak (in season 1):

1) Is he too weak relative to the average fan's expectations?
2) Is he too weak relative to the rest of the JL and the villains?

Regarding point 1), here's a quick summary, in animated gif form:

Spoiler

Season 1

Season 2

I'd say the season 2 example is pretty much what most fans familiar with Superman are accustomed to, whereas the season 1 example is something most fans wouldn't be accustomed to seeing. As such, I'd say the answer to 1) is strongly "yes."

Point 2) is a little harder to answer. There's no absolute rule of thumb here, but the following gifs kind of demonstrate my point:

Spoiler

Superman and GL are trying to accomplish the same thing against the same type of machine. Superman's strength completely failed him. GL's ring was succeeding, until his ring ran out of charge. So while not every single example you'd pull from S1 fits this pattern, it's the type of thing fans complained about. So my answer to 2) would be "probably."

As I alluded to using the failed sneak attack on Felix Faust, S1 pretty much made the entire JL weaker across the board, but just because everybody's weaker doesn't necessarily make it better if any one particular character is. If, say, all of the sudden Batman can't dodge bullets, you don't improve the situation by making Hawkgirl unable to fly. Instead of people complaining Batman's not dodging bullets, they'll start complaining that Batman can't dodge bullets and Hawkgirl can't fly.

Also, writer's intent is kind of irrelevant here. If you make a guy underpowered (or overpowered) by sheer accident, the end product on the TV screen is exactly the same if you did so on purpose. Whatever was the intent of the creators, that shouldn't have much bearing on whether you think the heroes are portrayed as competent enough or not. The writer's intent only gives you an idea of what to expect in future stories (prospective), but the complaints here were about not liking what people had already seen (retrospective).

 

[Dusty]

Thanks I get what you are saying good Sir.
But I have to disagree with the second set of Gif images though, GL is able to stop the object easier because of how he approached the Warwheel and how he is positioned and how the Spikes have nothing to grasp onto making it essentially useless. While Superman's task was a bit more difficult as the War Wheel already had been moving more and had traction to keep moving forward. Sorry If my lame point is coming across as such, it is late and I should not post about anything scientific or anything that would cause me to think hard, lol.

Also as to what you posted about what the creators said about him being weak... if you recall James Tucker said something on the extra's from the season DVD set that was similar to what I said earlier... this: "if anything Superman was getting beaten more in his own show than in JL." that is the comment I take more seriously because it isn't just Mr. Tucker agreeing or taking blame from fans, but stating the obvious. And truthfully, I'll again say I think Mr. Tucker was right, STAS's Superman was far weaker and got beat down in way more silly and ridiculous ways than in JL.
Note... also "Injustice For All" part two has a much better fight scene from Supes. He doesn't get owned by anything but Kryptonite, lol.

EDIT!!! Thinking about it... just ignore my post, I am making no sense, lol. (I think it would be easier for me if I was talking to you face to face but online I can never really figure the right words to say, lol.) Anyways, I am just going to say I disagree that Supes was too weak in JL... and I'll just let people throw Tomatoes at me, lol


D.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

With the War Wheels, I think the Bruce Timm quote that is most pertinent is this one:

So we used the easy trick of saying, ‘Okay: the villain walks into the scene and takes Superman down with one punch.’ [That way], we automatically know that he's a bad guy and it's going to take the entire Justice League to take him down. We didn't handle that with enough finesse.

The first War Wheel gif I posted was the first time they came across a War Wheel, and following the script above, Superman couldn't break the cockpit canopy, then couldn't slow it down, and that tipped off the audience, "OMG, Superman can't stop it himself! This requires a whole team effort!" But later, as often happens in TV and movies, those same difficult-to-beat bad guys all of the sudden become progressively easier to defeat, which would explain why GL was able to stop one in its tracks until his ring ran out of charge.

 

[Wonderwall]

Superman never got taken out by an electrified manhole cover in his own show. He was in JL season 1. To me that always said it all as nothing was worse or dumber than that

 

[Dusty]

Superman never got taken out by an electrified manhole cover in his own show. He was in JL season 1. To me that always said it all as nothing was worse or dumber than that

Nah, there are so many STAS moments that I THINK are so much worse than that, but that is why we have opinions. Plus for all we know that manhole cover could have been way more powerful than it looked, I mean Livewire owned Superman every time she showed up, she barely had to breath in his direction and he would go down easy peasy.

And BigFatHarryDeal, I kind of get what you are saying as well... Sort of, (i've been up all night feeling like junk I need sleep, lol.) Anyways, I have stated it before but I will say it again... I'll take a less powerful Superman over a more powerful one if the less powerful one doesn't act like he is a testosterone filled jerk-wad always ready to fight before trying to be diplomatic or peaceful first, (the aggressive jerk-wad from JL season 2/JLU is not who Superman is supposed to be.) BT and Co. Had it right in JL season one IMO, if anything all they had to do was up his power levels a little, (again though, I was content with how he was power wise) Anyways, they did not need to make him so aggressive and abrasive all the time as well... But that's what fans wanted... a tough "bad butt" Superman, or atleast that is what I remember the complaints were about back when these episodes first aired 11 years ago tomorrow.... Speaking of which... wow, time flies huh?
Anyways goodnight mates, or morning depending on your locations.

Edit: and sorry if my post is nothing but a bunch of run on sentences and repetitive... I feel yucky, but have a good day everyone.


D.

 

[ganon51]

Nah, there are so many STAS moments that I THINK are so much worse than that, but that is why we have opinions. Plus for all we know that manhole cover could have been way more powerful than it looked, I mean Livewire owned Superman every time she showed up, she barely had to breath in his direction and he would go down easy peasy.

And BigFatHarryDeal, I kind of get what you are saying as well... Sort of, (i've been up all night feeling like junk I need sleep, lol.) Anyways, I have stated it before but I will say it again... I'll take a less powerful Superman over a more powerful one if the less powerful one doesn't act like he is a testosterone filled jerk-wad always ready to fight before trying to be diplomatic or peaceful first, (the aggressive jerk-wad from JL season 2/JLU is not who Superman is supposed to be.) BT and Co. Had it right in JL season one IMO, if anything all they had to do was up his power levels a little, (again though, I was content with how he was power wise) Anyways, they did not need to make him so aggressive and abrasive all the time as well... But that's what fans wanted... a tough "bad butt" Superman, or atleast that is what I remember the complaints were about back when these episodes first aired 11 years ago tomorrow.... Speaking of which... wow, time flies huh?
Anyways goodnight mates, or morning depending on your locations.

Edit: and sorry if my post is nothing but a bunch of run on sentences and repetitive... I feel yucky, but have a good day everyone.


D.

So you think the STAS superman was better than the JL/U superman?

 

[Dusty]

STAS version of Superman was a little better in terms of personality than JLU... yes, but in JL season one... NO.
In JL season one Superman is a good nice boy scout through and through. In STAS he is a not as nice a boy scout, but still cool. ...

...In JLU and JL season 2 he is an arrogant, cocky, and mean jerk. lol


D.

 

[JTMarsh]

STAS version of Superman was a little better in terms of personality than JLU... yes, but in JL season one... NO.
In JL season one Superman is a good nice boy scout through and through. In STAS he is a not as nice a boy scout, but still cool. ...

...In JLU and JL season 2 he is an arrogant, cocky, and mean jerk. lol


D.

The only episodes where he came off as a jerk were ones that involved psychological manipulation by the villains - Grodd's Injustice Society and the Cadmus Arc. Outside of those episodes he wasn't really cocky or arrogant. I'd say he was more of a jerk on Young Justice than JLU, seeing as how YJ didn't really play to his strengths as a character on the rare occasions where he actually got to talk or do something other than just stand there (his guest shots on Batman: The Brave & The Bold did a better job of capturing what we love about him but that's another story).

 

[Dusty]

The only episodes where he came off as a jerk were ones that involved psychological manipulation by the villains - Grodd's Injustice Society and the Cadmus Arc. Outside of those episodes he wasn't really cocky or arrogant. I'd say he was more of a jerk on Young Justice than JLU, seeing as how YJ didn't really play to his strengths as a character on the rare occasions where he actually got to talk or do something other than just stand there (his guest shots on Batman: The Brave & The Bold did a better job of capturing what we love about him but that's another story).

I agree he is/was very lame in YJ, a very "dead beat dad" type personality...but I still think he was doing much worse (not so Superman-ish) stuff in JL/JLU...

"Twilight"

The moment in Twilight where he was willing to kill Darkseid... and allow Orion to die too was way out of character IMO... especially considering how he had always acted like a real good and true hero in almost all of his comics from the past 75 years, (65+ back when the episodes were actually written.) I have been reading/watching Superman for decades, and I never read or saw him act that way.
BT and Co. Even admitted to going a bit far on that episode, they wanted to please the fans by having Superman beat the tar out of someone. It's one thing for him to want to beat the crap out of Darkseid or even be "tempted" to finish him off... but he was GOING to kill Darkseid had it not been for Batman.

Then in "Destroyer" his whole end speech started off cool but then became quite pointless as instead of knocking DS into space away from buildings and people... He hits him through all the buildings and then smashes him into the ground (i'd say at least 100+ people were killed or injured in that scene alone.)

Then the times where Superman says things that are more (not so Superman-ish) type things to say...
From "A Better World"...
Superman to the rest of the league: "I don't know about the rest of you, but I am ready to Kick some serious (fill in the blank)

From "Twilight"
Darkseid to Superman: "You know his pattern Kal-El, once he finished siphoning the memory banks and technology of my Planet..."
Superman interrupts: "...he'll annihilate it... Good."

Later on in episode...
Brainiac to Superman: "and this is your final decision?"
Superman's response: "Read my lips... Go to (fill in the blank) "
(...both very lame, not so Superman-ish moments)

Sorry, but Supes was a grade-A chump-wad in many JLS2 and JLU episodes. I mean, there was no excuse for his crap in "Clash" I don't care how stressed he was about Cadmus and junk, that was such a lame episode and reason for him to fight Captain Marvel IMO.

I suppose I could list many more, but I feel I am just posting stuff I already have... plus I know I am in the minority here... people like that version of Superman, and many people probably think of me as a broken record by now, so I will just leave what I wrote and be done with complaining about it for good.. I have complained far too much about this subject, already. lol

Anyways JTMarsh, I meant no disrespect or offense in my post, if it at all came across as such I completely and sincerely apologize.
EDIT: JTMarsh I have always wondered... What show is your Avatar from? I always see it, but I just can't recognize it from anything. lol

D.

 

[ganon51]

STAS version of Superman was a little better in terms of personality than JLU... yes, but in JL season one... NO.
In JL season one Superman is a good nice boy scout through and through. In STAS he is a not as nice a boy scout, but still cool. ...

...In JLU and JL season 2 he is an arrogant, cocky, and mean jerk. lol


D.

JL season 1 Superman was too wimpy, that's why that season got so many complaints.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Even though I understand the concern, I don't look too much into smashing buildings and city blocks during a fight as a sign of being a jerk. That's just part of trying to make the visuals of the fight more impressive, helping to give scope as to how physical the fight really is. Yeah, ideally, Superman wouldn't endanger anyone from collateral damage, and I don't see that as nitpicking, either, but I just see it as something that helps drive home the point.

 

[JTMarsh]

I agree he is/was very lame in YJ, a very "dead beat dad" type personality...but I still think he was doing much worse (not so Superman-ish) stuff in JL/JLU...

YJ Superman will go down as "The Animated Superman We Don't Talk About" in the years to come.

"Twilight"

The moment in Twilight where he was willing to kill Darkseid... and allow Orion to die too was way out of character IMO... especially considering how he had always acted like a real good and true hero in almost all of his comics from the past 75 years, (65+ back when the episodes were actually written.) I have been reading/watching Superman for decades, and I never read or saw him act that way.
BT and Co. Even admitted to going a bit far on that episode, they wanted to please the fans by having Superman beat the tar out of someone. It's one thing for him to want to beat the crap out of Darkseid or even be "tempted" to finish him off... but he was GOING to kill Darkseid had it not been for Batman.

Then in "Destroyer" his whole end speech started off cool but then became quite pointless as instead of knocking DS into space away from buildings and people... He hits him through all the buildings and then smashes him into the ground (i'd say at least 100+ people were killed or injured in that scene alone.)

Then the times where Superman says things that are more (not so Superman-ish) type things to say...
From "A Better World"...
Superman to the rest of the league: "I don't know about the rest of you, but I am ready to Kick some serious (fill in the blank)

From "Twilight"
Darkseid to Superman: "You know his pattern Kal-El, once he finished siphoning the memory banks and technology of my Planet..."
Superman interrupts: "...he'll annihilate it... Good."

Later on in episode...
Brainiac to Superman: "and this is your final decision?"
Superman's response: "Read my lips... Go to (fill in the blank) "
(...both very lame, not so Superman-ish moments)

Considering the pain Brainiac and Darkseid inflicted on Superman in the DCAU (allowing his home world and people to be destroyed, brainwashing him into doing horrible crimes, etc.) I think he should be given some slack for having no real empathy for either one before proceeding to beat the ever loving snot out of the latter. As for Orion, I guess Superman was counting on Orion to still be conscious enough to use his mother box to escape.

Sorry, but Supes was a grade-A chump-wad in many JLS2 and JLU episodes. I mean, there was no excuse for his crap in "Clash" I don't care how stressed he was about Cadmus and junk, that was such a lame episode and reason for him to fight Captain Marvel IMO.

"Clash" was a lousy episode I'll give you that. I always felt we needed some more episodes showing his emotional decline, seeing as how we'd had about 4 episodes without him and last we saw he was still acting fairly normal (not counting putting Doomsday in the Phantom Zone of course, but he didn't have a lot of great alternative options).

I suppose I could list many more, but I feel I am just posting stuff I already have... plus I know I am in the minority here... people like that version of Superman, and many people probably think of me as a broken record by now, so I will just leave what I wrote and be done with complaining about it for good.. I have complained far too much about this subject, already. lol

Anyways JTMarsh, I meant no disrespect or offense in my post, if it at all came across as such I completely and sincerely apologize.

None taken.

EDIT: JTMarsh I have always wondered... What show is your Avatar from? I always see it, but I just can't recognize it from anything. lol

D.

My avatar is from the 1993-1995 cult sci-fi action series "Exo-Squad". The character is series protagonist J.T. Marsh, leader of Able Squad, voiced by Robby Benson (better known as the Beast from Disney's Beauty & The Beast; also appeared once on Batman: TAS as Montoya's one time partner from the episode POV).

 

[Dusty]

JL season 1 Superman was too wimpy, that's why that season got so many complaints.

He was way more weak in STAS, he was a huge wuss in that show, and even in some JLU episodes like: "For The Man Who Has Everything." Because in JL Season One he took out the dude who took out Mongul and even took a beating from Mongul for like an hour but was still perfectly conscious and when he was told the Planet destroyer was gone (the whole reason for him letting Mongul beat him up) he still got up and was ready to pummel Mongul, yet in JLU's "For The Man Who Has Everything" he got his butt handed to him by Mongul. Thinking about it now I disagree with the whole statement that Superman was weak in JLS1, he just wasn't shown punching and taking down as many bad guys as he was in later seasons... bit of a difference, than being "weak." As he got knocked down and out just as much in JL Season 2 and JLU but was just more aggressive and actually hit back most of the time, while in Season One he did not do that quite as often.

YJ Superman will go down as "The Animated Superman We Don't Talk About" in the years to come.


Considering the pain Brainiac and Darkseid inflicted on Superman in the DCAU (allowing his home world and people to be destroyed, brainwashing him into doing horrible crimes, etc.) I think he should be given some slack for having no real empathy for either one before proceeding to beat the ever loving snot out of the latter. As for Orion, I guess Superman was counting on Orion to still be conscious enough to use his mother box to escape.


"Clash" was a lousy episode I'll give you that. I always felt we needed some more episodes showing his emotional decline, seeing as how we'd had about 4 episodes without him and last we saw he was still acting fairly normal (not counting putting Doomsday in the Phantom Zone of course, but he didn't have a lot of great alternative options).


None taken.


My avatar is from the 1993-1995 cult sci-fi action series "Exo-Squad". The character is series protagonist J.T. Marsh, leader of Able Squad, voiced by Robby Benson (better known as the Beast from Disney's Beauty & The Beast; also appeared once on Batman: TAS as Montoya's one time partner from the episode POV).

Thanks for clearing your Avatar mystery up, lol. As for the other stuff even still Superman should never actually kill someone no matter how evil they are, he has had that attitude towards so many of his villains in the comics and tv shows for the past 75 years. So again IMO killing Darkseid was out of character. Anyways, I will agree to disagree on the JL/JLU stuff but I completely agree on the Young Justice stuff, lol.


D.

 

[ganon51]

He was way more weak in STAS, he was a huge wuss in that show, and even in some JLU episodes like: "For The Man Who Has Everything." Because in JL Season One he took out the dude who took out Mongul and even took a beating from Mongul for like an hour but was still perfectly conscious and when he was told the Planet destroyer was gone (the whole reason for him letting Mongul beat him up) he still got up and was ready to pummel Mongul, yet in JLU's "For The Man Who Has Everything" he got his butt handed to him by Mongul. Thinking about it now I disagree with the whole statement that Superman was weak in JLS1, he just wasn't shown punching and taking down as many bad guys as he was in later seasons... bit of a difference, than being "weak." As he got knocked down and out just as much in JL Season 2 and JLU but was just more aggressive and actually hit back most of the time, while in Season One he did not do that quite as often.

Yeah, he was sure as hell more tough in 'Injustice For All' than he was in "Legacy" or "Father's Day."

 

[Dusty]

Is that Sarcasm?... I can't tell if your comment was sarcastic or serious, lol... either way Superman wasn't bleeding all over the place in "Injustice for All" that's for sure. In STAS' "Father's Day" it would have been cooler had he been tough enough to withstand Darkseid's Omega Beams a little better, and also not get owned by Kalibak for 4/5 of the episode. In "Legacy" I do give Superman some props because of how Darkseid IS way powerful, but Superman only won cause he turned Darkseid's own power on himself, and even still, he was bloody and beaten badly.
It was still a great episode of STAS for many reasons, (it is one of my favorites for sure... despite my feelings on his power levels.)

D.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

He was way more weak in STAS, he was a huge wuss in that show, and even in some JLU episodes like: "For The Man Who Has Everything." Because in JL Season One he took out the dude who took out Mongul and even took a beating from Mongul for like an hour but was still perfectly conscious and when he was told the Planet destroyer was gone (the whole reason for him letting Mongul beat him up) he still got up and was ready to pummel Mongul, yet in JLU's "For The Man Who Has Everything" he got his butt handed to him by Mongul. Thinking about it now I disagree with the whole statement that Superman was weak in JLS1, he just wasn't shown punching and taking down as many bad guys as he was in later seasons... bit of a difference, than being "weak." As he got knocked down and out just as much in JL Season 2 and JLU but was just more aggressive and actually hit back most of the time, while in Season One he did not do that quite as often.

First of all, writers play fast and loose with "power levels," so it's not as though you should bother with playing the transitivity game, e.g. Superman beat this guy in episode X, who beat that guy in episode Y, so Superman should beat that guy in episode Z. Secondly, yes, Superman lost the fight to Mongul, but it was abundantly clear, both in the comic and the cartoon, that Superman had the upper hand, distracted himself, and that distraction gave Mongul the opportunity he needed. Mongul himself even said he thought he was meat ("Do you know, I almost believed you were about to kill me. How stupid of you to hesitate like that..."). Forget what you remember from "War World" (see above about transitivity), the point of the fight (and also in the story it was based on) was that Mongul is a guy who can go toe-to-toe with Superman, and if Superman gets careless against him, he will lose. Saying "he got his butt handed to him by Mongul" is about as misleading as you can get while still correctly describing the final outcome.

And yeah, he got knocked down a few times in S2, but it's clearly a different approach to animating the fights. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's obviously more overt. I remember being impressed in episodes like "Twilight" and "Tabula Rasa" when Superman would get zapped or shot, but then you'd see him stay on his feet. Also, in fights against guys like Grundy or AMAZO, even if Superman got knocked back, you'd see he'd maintain his balance and stay on his feet, instead of crashing rear end first into side of a building or a vehicle. That's a huge difference, in my book.

The one thing I can agree with you was that Superman was wimpy in STAS... and as I believe James Tucker alluded to, just as wimpy in S1 of JL.

 

[The Dark Lord]

"Twilight"

The moment in Twilight where he was willing to kill Darkseid... and allow Orion to die too was way out of character IMO... especially considering how he had always acted like a real good and true hero in almost all of his comics from the past 75 years, (65+ back when the episodes were actually written.) I have been reading/watching Superman for decades, and I never read or saw him act that way.
BT and Co. Even admitted to going a bit far on that episode, they wanted to please the fans by having Superman beat the tar out of someone. It's one thing for him to want to beat the crap out of Darkseid or even be "tempted" to finish him off... but he was GOING to kill Darkseid had it not been for Batman.

Then in "Destroyer" his whole end speech started off cool but then became quite pointless as instead of knocking DS into space away from buildings and people... He hits him through all the buildings and then smashes him into the ground (i'd say at least 100+ people were killed or injured in that scene alone.)

Then the times where Superman says things that are more (not so Superman-ish) type things to say...
From "A Better World"...
Superman to the rest of the league: "I don't know about the rest of you, but I am ready to Kick some serious (fill in the blank)

From "Twilight"
Darkseid to Superman: "You know his pattern Kal-El, once he finished siphoning the memory banks and technology of my Planet..."
Superman interrupts: "...he'll annihilate it... Good."

Later on in episode...
Brainiac to Superman: "and this is your final decision?"
Superman's response: "Read my lips... Go to (fill in the blank) "
(...both very lame, not so Superman-ish moments)

Sorry, but Supes was a grade-A chump-wad in many JLS2 and JLU episodes. I mean, there was no excuse for his crap in "Clash" I don't care how stressed he was about Cadmus and junk, that was such a lame episode and reason for him to fight Captain Marvel IMO.

I actually like that Superman isn't such a big shade of white in certain JL/JLU episodes. Makes things more interesting, and further shows that Cadmus isn't exactly wrong about oppression from superhumans.

 

[Dusty]

First of all, writers play fast and loose with "power levels," so it's not as though you should bother with playing the transitivity game, e.g. Superman beat this guy in episode X, who beat that guy in episode Y, so Superman should beat that guy in episode Z. Secondly, yes, Superman lost the fight to Mongul, but it was abundantly clear, both in the comic and the cartoon, that Superman had the upper hand, distracted himself, and that distraction gave Mongul the opportunity he needed. Mongul himself even said he thought he was meat ("Do you know, I almost believed you were about to kill me. How stupid of you to hesitate like that..."). Forget what you remember from "War World" (see above about transitivity), the point of the fight (and also in the story it was based on) was that Mongul is a guy who can go toe-to-toe with Superman, and if Superman gets careless against him, he will lose. Saying "he got his butt handed to him by Mongul" is about as misleading as you can get while still correctly describing the final outcome.

And yeah, he got knocked down a few times in S2, but it's clearly a different approach to animating the fights. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's obviously more overt. I remember being impressed in episodes like "Twilight" and "Tabula Rasa" when Superman would get zapped or shot, but then you'd see him stay on his feet. Also, in fights against guys like Grundy or AMAZO, even if Superman got knocked back, you'd see he'd maintain his balance and stay on his feet, instead of crashing rear end first into side of a building or a vehicle. That's a huge difference, in my book.

The one thing I can agree with you was that Superman was wimpy in STAS... and as I believe James Tucker alluded to, just as wimpy in S1 of JL.

About the Superman beat episode X, who beat guy episode Y...
Yes it is not the best way to get a message about a character's powers across, but if you remember Draaga made Superman bleed slightly, and Superman beat the crap out of him. Later on Superman allowed Mongul to slam away at him for quite some time, and still Superman wasn't even scratched, and when it came time for him to fight back he was instantly ready to go. So I do think in this case of (Superman beat character X, who wasted character Y is relevant here.) So while War World had it's problems one can at least say Superman wasn't weak, he just wasn't given the chance to knock Mongul's block off. As for the rest of the season there were episodes where he could have been tougher, but I really see the same thing in many JLS2/JLU episodes too, he was just handled much differently. As always though, this is all personal opinion,

EDIT: again, like I said before, I am just coming across as a broken record...
I like Superman in Justice League Season One, probably more than a lot of other animated incarnations. There are a few times I do wish maybe he would have done "this or that" but at the end of the day I like that he is more powerful than he was in STAS (even if slightly,) and that he had a better more Superman-ish personality. I liked his slightly more detailed face, I also liked his compassion and diplomatic approach to things and how he acted and reacted in situations compared to JLS2/JLU.
I have no problem with people complaining or saying they think he was weak, (fine that's their opinion.) I have made peace with it now, (even though it isn't anything that one really needs to "make peace with" lol. ) Anyways, I just think it is pointless for me to keep going on and on, as I will never convince anyone to change their views on the subject, lol. So I respect everyone's opinion on what is liked or disliked about this subject, and i'm going to leave it at that. But by any means, you guys or gals can keep debating if you wish... I just don't want to somehow end up causing any kind of trouble or anything. So are we good BigFatHairyDeal and ganon51?



D.

 

[ganon51]

About the Superman beat episode X, who beat guy episode Y...
Yes it is not the best way to get a message about a character's powers across, but if you remember Draaga made Superman bleed slightly, and Superman beat the crap out of him. Later on Superman allowed Mongul to slam away at him for quite some time, and still Superman wasn't even scratched, and when it came time for him to fight back he was instantly ready to go. So I do think in this case of (Superman beat character X, who wasted character Y is relevant here.) So while War World had it's problems one can at least say Superman wasn't weak, he just wasn't given the chance to knock Mongul's block off. As for the rest of the season there were episodes where he could have been tougher, but I really see the same thing in many JLS2/JLU episodes too, he was just handled much differently. As always though, this is all personal opinion,

EDIT: again, like I said before, I am just coming across as a broken record...
I like Superman in Justice League Season One, probably more than a lot of other animated incarnations. There are a few times I do wish maybe he would have done "this or that" but at the end of the day I like that he is more powerful than he was in STAS (even if slightly,) and that he had a better more Superman-ish personality. I liked his slightly more detailed face, I also liked his compassion and diplomatic approach to things and how he acted and reacted in situations compared to JLS2/JLU.
I have no problem with people complaining or saying they think he was weak, (fine that's their opinion.) I have made peace with it now, (even though it isn't anything that one really needs to "make peace with" lol. ) Anyways, I just think it is pointless for me to keep going on and on, as I will never convince anyone to change their views on the subject, lol. So I respect everyone's opinion on what is liked or disliked about this subject, and i'm going to leave it at that. But by any means, you guys or gals can keep debating if you wish... I just don't want to somehow end up causing any kind of trouble or anything. So are we good BigFatHairyDeal and ganon51?



D.

Alright, but it would've been better if Tim Daly did his voice in JL S1, THEN I may agree with you. Supes was drawn more consistently in STAS(the last 2 seasons anyway). Those face wrinkles he had in JL S1 just made him look too old, after all it took place only a few years after STAS.