Young Justice "Coldhearted" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Dorko]

As much as I liked this episode, it highlights a continuing problem. The villains are utterly incompetent. Vandal Savage and Count Vertigo between them can't even delay one sidekick for more than a short time. Not a single episode has ended with a loss for the heroes, the villains always get defeated. The villainous credibility of the Light is pretty low in my eyes.

Almost every episode they're in features The Light achieving at least a secondary objective or salvaging part of their primary objective, with the exception of this one. Even when they've lost, like when Black Manta failed to get Starro in Downtime, they've found a way to salvage the objective. They're losing battles, but they're winning the war and the heroes don't even really know it yet.

 

[Zombie]

^ They still are ultimately defeated every time they go head to head with the heroes. Every single time. Having the Light say "Well we all got stomped, and half of our guys are locked up. But those foolish heroes failed to stop us from sneaking to the corner store to steal a bottle of milk!" does not make them seem any more competent.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

I think to the higher ups in the Light, whomever they recruit is merely cannon fodder. As long as they get closer to their primary goals, they don't care how many of their minions bite the dust or get arrested.

 

[Skaddix]

^ They still are ultimately defeated every time they go head to head with the heroes. Every single time. Having the Light say "Well we all got stomped, and half of our guys are locked up. But those foolish heroes failed to stop us from sneaking to the corner store to steal a bottle of milk!" does not make them seem any more competent.

The fact that their guys are locked up makes no difference or do u miss the part where they gained control over Belle Reeve (sorry if I misspelled)?

Besides its a superhero show....heck most fantasy involves the good guys winning sure they might get stomped a few times but how much heroic fiction have u read when the bad guys win 100% and stomp out all the good guys?

 

[Zombie]

^ Yeah, but the badguys haven't won 1% let alone 100%. In twenty episodes they don't have a single clearcut victory. Obviously the season will end with the Light defeated, so to provide any sense of threat or suspense, they should get at least an occasional outright victory, to show they aren't a complete joke.

 

[ToonRocket]

^ Yeah, but the badguys haven't won 1% let alone 100%. In twenty episodes they don't have a single clearcut victory. Obviously the season will end with the Light defeated, so to provide any sense of threat or suspense, they should get at least an occasional outright victory, to show they aren't a complete joke.

Last week their mission was "distract and stall the League (the whole world, really) long enough for us to break into STAR labs and steal the last piece of Starro."

It was a complete success.

 

[Zombie]

The world's five most powerful sorcerers were defeated, four of them being carted off by Dr Fate. Stealing a glorified plate of calamari (where they faced no heroic opposition), seems a poor trade. The fact that Weisman and co. have decided to call the main focus of every episode 'a distraction', so that even when physically defeated any time they actually fight the heroes the villains can still claim that everything went according to plan, seems like a cheap writing trick to me.

 

[Nygma]

U

The world's five most powerful sorcerers were defeated, four of them being carted off by Dr Fate. Stealing a glorified plate of calamari (where they faced no heroic opposition), seems a poor trade.

Wait till the Starro piece gets injected with Blockbuster formula then come back and say it's a poor trade.

The fact that Weisman and co. have decided to call the main focus of every episode 'a distraction', so that even when physically defeated any time they actually fight the heroes the villains can still claim that everything went according to plan, seems like a cheap writing trick to me.

David Xanatos would disagree with you.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

I am not a huge fan of the constant all-is-going-as-planned sort of endings we've seen so often, and I would also prefer a few more outright victories for the Light, but really what they're doing isn't too different from the old boxing rope-a-dope strategy, allowing yourself to lose every round until the right situation allows you to comeback with a winning KO blow. The Light are slow and methodical. They work in such secrecy so that nobody knows what they're really up to. You could reasonably argue that they're letting the JL (and YJ) operate under the assumption of success so that once the Light goes for the KO, the good guys won't be prepared.

 

[Zombie]

^ I don't know that rope-a-dope is a good metaphor here, being as the point of it is to let the opponent wear themselves out before striking back. The JL etc aren't getting worn out, in fact the only real loss they've suffered was an own goal, Zatara becoming Dr Fate. So far none of the things the Light have created have caused any serious difficulty for the JL. Kobra-Venom animals and goons? Beaten several times now. Kobra-Venom plants? Dealt with without much trouble in Revelation. Even when they have an enormous advantage in numbers and on-paper strength, as in Terrors, they can't win.

I know this show is primarily aimed at kids/ young teens, but it takes itself seriously enough that it seems like the villains should pose more of a challenge to the heroes. I'm not expecting The Wire or Game of Thrones style losses for the heroes, but the occasional defeat would remind me I'm not watching Inspector Gadget.

 

[Bobbywoodhogan]

How come only certain superheroes were in stealth costume? Aquaman and Jonn were the only ones in their normal costumes (well that I noticed). Or were they winter costumes? they have worn them before right just struggling to remember.

 

[Cartoon Commando]

How come only certain superheroes were in stealth costume? Aquaman and Jonn were the only ones in their normal costumes (well that I noticed). Or were they winter costumes? they have worn them before right just struggling to remember.

The Justice League weren't wearing camo suits because they're not stealth-oriented like "the team" is. Batman and the Flash were also shown in their normal uniforms.

 

[ShadowStar]

I think to the higher ups in the Light, whomever they recruit is merely cannon fodder. As long as they get closer to their primary goals, they don't care how many of their minions bite the dust or get arrested.

Yeah. Many of their operatives have to be able to go down if necessary (they're pawns that can be sacrificed if necessary without harming the secret society at the heart of the conspiracy). The Light need to be able to maintain their secrecy so that they can fight another day, so losing their operatives to the heroes is a good way of lulling the heroes into a false sense of security while the Light remains as strong as ever. As long as the secret of the Light's secret society isn't betrayed, things are OK for them... but they can be set back in their plans, which we've repeatedly seen to be the case. It's all one big game of chess that we've yet to see the result of, though the heroes don't know that the villains are as co-ordinated as they themselves are.

 

[Tash]

Yes Batman, if kind of DOES matter who the girl is, if there are people running around who might want her dead. If he had just taken a moment to warn Kid Flash instead of giving him a hard time, things would have gone a lot smoother.

Batman's a jerk.

 

[The Dark Lord]

Great episode! Count Vertigo and Vandal Savage were awesome, loved the twists in the end (M. Night would be proud! =P ), and FINALLY a Kid Flash episode! Wonder how he'll act towards Miss Martian now that he knows her and Superboy are an item...

 

[Dusty]

While I have had my issues with this show, Kid Flash never disappoints, this was a great episode. I especially enjoyed the scene where he was given the news that Miss Martian and Superboy were together, the expression on Artemis's face made it all the funnier. All in all, this is probably my favorite episode of the show.
Now I really want a "Flash The Animated Series," with Wally being the main Flash in it, that would be pure awesome-sauce!



D.

 

[Lord Sidious]

Another good episode!!

So far only Terrors and Disordered are the weakest ones......But they are both still good episodes in the grand scheme of the whole season.


Are they ever going to call themselves "Young Justice"???

The name, "The Team" is not bad but it's too vague.

 

[Gimpyhair]

FINALLY, a KF centred episode, he is such an underdevelopped character (in comparison to SB and MM...). This episode made me love Wally even more!

I love his reaction to SB and MM's relationship: sure he was disappointed, that's understandable, but he wasn't being all teen-drama either. It seemed pretty much in character for him to move on pretty quickly (unless the nexts episodes will tell otherwise...). But I don't think it was the best moment to tell him though.... During his birthday party? Artemis seemed to enjoy telling him way too much.

Gotta love his fight in the end, being alone against Count Vertigo and the armed henchmen, that was pretty cool!

Gotta love the ending with Robin

 

[Replikon Xum]

While I didn't see any comment about it, I'm sure someone else noticed the similarities between this episode and the first issue of the Wally Wesr Flash comic.

Xum

 

[W.C.Reaf]

Also, Count vertigo would go to all the trouble of getting those ice fortresses up but wouldn't it be easier to hold the hospital hostage or just set up some attack in the hospital that would delay the operation. And it just seemed a bit odd that just because it was the parking level, goons were everywhere but once the heart got to the doctors, everything was ok? So the goons couldn't come up to the upper floors? And if count vertigo was smart enough to plant a fake doctor in front of the hospital, you would think he could get plant someone to be part of the operation team.

That was the entire point. Vertigo said himself he has diplomatic immunity unless he commits a crime against his country. So he can't outright do anything to kill the Queen, so he has to be subtle. Delaying a heart transplant makes it look like a random supervillain attack, stealing the heart like he did makes it look like black market thugs saw an opportunity and took it. Doing anything you suggested makes it a deliberate attempt on the Queen's life therefore there'd be an investigation and it could get traced back to him. Also someone saying they're a doctor in front of the hospital is a lot easier than putting someone in on the heart transplant operation.

And urggg...batman.... You seriously got to be more suspiscious of people. You're the detective after all. Letting superboy join the team while suspecting he may be a mole and now not even suspecting hugo strange in this episode. I expected even a suspicous look or glare from batman when strange states the ice villains have remained in their cells.

How do you know he doesn't? If he suspects something then he's not going to outright say it in front of Strange.

Also they don't know there's a mole on the Team, the entire point of the meeting in Secrets was to assess if they think there could be a mole. Not that they know for certain there is one. Throwing Superboy off the Team because of that is a bad idea anyway, he has nowhere else to go if he isn't the mole, and if he is then it's better to watch and see if he tips his hand as to who he's a mole for.

As much as I liked this episode, it highlights a continuing problem. The villains are utterly incompetent. Vandal Savage and Count Vertigo between them can't even delay one sidekick for more than a short time. Not a single episode has ended with a loss for the heroes, the villains always get defeated. The villainous credibility of the Light is pretty low in my eyes.

People complain about the Light winning too much and now complaints about the Light not winning at all.