MeTV Toons - Network TALKBACK & Discussion Thread

[Jeff Harris]

I'd argue the biggest issue isn't Warner, but just the idea of relying on one external company's portfolio in general. Yes, I know MeTV has acquired a bunch of programming independent of the Warner library, but it's clear that is something they're leaning heavily on. What happens to this network if Warner decides to not renew their partnership or they get sold off and the new owners have other plans? That PBJ network died almost immediately after its content partner got bought out by Comcast.

The reality is that there are far fewer vendors of animated programming than live-action material. Even less so if you're looking for a one-stop shop of notable boomer friendly animation. Outside of Warner, the only other company that fits the description is Disney, who doesn't play nice with others. If MeTV were to lose that Warner deal, they'd have to either pivot to "newer" material from other programming partners or just call it a quits.

Of course, this is just expressing concern for a potential scenario that's likely years away from ever being on the table.

I keep seeing comparisons between MeTV Toons and PBJ, and it's a lot lopsided.

For starters, Weigel is a FAR MORE competent network owner than Luken. If you ever see what Luken (now Get After It Media) has done, you can see the difference in the way they operate, present their channels, and curate their lineups.

The big differences between PBJ and MeTV Toons are the following:

• PBJ was intended from the start to be a children's network. MeTV Toons is a general entertainment channel that airs all cartoons
• PBJ had a very small footprint while MeTV Toons will have a footprint of approximately 80% of the country, including nine of the top 10 TV markets at launch. Not many affiliates carried PBJ. By comparison, the closest equivalent they had at the time, Qubo, had a larger footprint thanks to being part of ION's digital channel group, which dropped the channel because it got a new owner, Scripps.
• PBJ didn't air cartoons 24 hours a day. The latter half of the lineup was comprised of shows from its TUFF TV channel and infomercials in late-night slots. There will be a full 24-hour lineup of cartoons on MeTV Toons.
• PBJ ONLY had one supplier of shows, Dreamworks Classics (once again called Classic Media), while MeTV Toons will have several, including partner studio Warner Bros Discovery, Sony Pictures TV, Wildbrain, ITV Studios, and NBC Universal (the company that bought Dreamworks Classics).
• NBC Universal wasn't interested in continuing a business relationship with a small network group with very little support from other studios and few affiliates to justify continuing their PBJ partnership. Warner Bros Discovery has been a program supplier to Weigel for over a decade and has built a fruitful relationship with MeTV, especially with animation. The MeTV animation blocks are quite successful and ratings winners not only on the network but across all of television, including cable.
• Luken didn't even try to build up PBJ with more programming. As I said, there was very little support for the channel, and affiliates were very hesitant to carry the channel, just as they were reluctant to carry ANY of Luken's channels. Luken rarely goes to big studios like WB, Paramount, NBCU, or Sony to find shows for its networks. Often, you'll see third-rate studio libraries and public-domain shows on their channels today. Weigel has gained the kind of clout to attract top studios and has been a proven success with those shows over the years. Weigel has a very healthy relationship with WB, Paramount, Sony, and NBCU and is using those relationships to build MeTV Toons.

I think it's weird to keep comparing MeTV Toons to PBJ, a station I can guarantee not many people ever heard of until this week.

 

[LinusFan303]

Also, Luken had problems with Retro TV being pretty much bled dry after METV, Antenna TV launched and took the rights to the programs they had. They lost affiliate base and relations there then had money problems. PBJ was way down on their list. They saved Retro over anything else.

 

[Tacomaster]

I keep hearing people saying 80% which is weird because I swore they were looking for 40% at launch

 

[PinkieLopBun]

I keep hearing people saying 80% which is weird because I swore they were looking for 40% at launch

I checked the Neal Sabin interview again and I think there was a mixup. He said he thinks they’ll be in 80 markets at launch, not 80% of markets. Granted, I don’t know how much of the country 80 actually covers, but I think that’s where that number came from.

 

[Kooplecrap Me]

I keep seeing comparisons between MeTV Toons and PBJ, and it's a lot lopsided.

For starters, Weigel is a FAR MORE competent network owner than Luken. If you ever see what Luken (now Get After It Media) has done, you can see the difference in the way they operate, present their channels, and curate their lineups.

The big differences between PBJ and MeTV Toons are the following:

• PBJ was intended from the start to be a children's network. MeTV Toons is a general entertainment channel that airs all cartoons
• PBJ had a very small footprint while MeTV Toons will have a footprint of approximately 80% of the country, including nine of the top 10 TV markets at launch. Not many affiliates carried PBJ. By comparison, the closest equivalent they had at the time, Qubo, had a larger footprint thanks to being part of ION's digital channel group, which dropped the channel because it got a new owner, Scripps.
• PBJ didn't air cartoons 24 hours a day. The latter half of the lineup was comprised of shows from its TUFF TV channel and infomercials in late-night slots. There will be a full 24-hour lineup of cartoons on MeTV Toons.
• PBJ ONLY had one supplier of shows, Dreamworks Classics (once again called Classic Media), while MeTV Toons will have several, including partner studio Warner Bros Discovery, Sony Pictures TV, Wildbrain, ITV Studios, and NBC Universal (the company that bought Dreamworks Classics).
• NBC Universal wasn't interested in continuing a business relationship with a small network group with very little support from other studios and few affiliates to justify continuing their PBJ partnership. Warner Bros Discovery has been a program supplier to Weigel for over a decade and has built a fruitful relationship with MeTV, especially with animation. The MeTV animation blocks are quite successful and ratings winners not only on the network but across all of television, including cable.
• Luken didn't even try to build up PBJ with more programming. As I said, there was very little support for the channel, and affiliates were very hesitant to carry the channel, just as they were reluctant to carry ANY of Luken's channels. Luken rarely goes to big studios like WB, Paramount, NBCU, or Sony to find shows for its networks. Often, you'll see third-rate studio libraries and public-domain shows on their channels today. Weigel has gained the kind of clout to attract top studios and has been a proven success with those shows over the years. Weigel has a very healthy relationship with WB, Paramount, Sony, and NBCU and is using those relationships to build MeTV Toons.

I think it's weird to keep comparing MeTV Toons to PBJ, a station I can guarantee not many people ever heard of until this week.

I've actually made a thread on what caused the demise of PBJ, and I've seen comparisons with Toons. The channel barely had any marketing, it only had 19 affiliates, and Comcast bought out Classic Media, which immediately killed the channel completely afterwards

 

[PicardMan]

I checked the Neal Sabin interview again and I think there was a mixup. He said he thinks they’ll be in 80 markets at launch, not 80% of markets. Granted, I don’t know how much of the country 80 actually covers, but I think that’s where that number came from.

Okay, that's a little disappointing. Less likely I'll get it. 80 markets still sounds like a lot. Let's see, Tulsa's #62 in biggest TV markets. Possible I might get this channel.

 

[Takao]

I used PBJ as an example of external forces basically killing a network off. I could've easily used Sinclair's failed buyout of Tribune resulting in Kidsclick's demise or something else. I'm not suggesting that MeTV Toons will be as unsuccessful as those two were, just pointing out that hinging so much onto one company (whose actions you don't control) can be a bad thing. MeTV's SATAM cartoon block seems to reach more people than those other two either did.

(Side note: I was familiar with PBJ through its broadcast of a certain ground-breaking show. I'm also a weirdo who knows of KidMangoTV and the Invincible Entertainment stuff on YTA TV.)

 

[SpecialColorfull]

I used PBJ as an example of external forces basically killing a network off. I could've easily used Sinclair's failed buyout of Tribune resulting in Kidsclick's demise or something else. I'm not suggesting that MeTV Toons will be as unsuccessful as those two were, just pointing out that hinging so much onto one company (whose actions you don't control) can be a bad thing. MeTV's SATAM cartoon block seems to reach more people than those other two either did.

(Side note: I was familiar with PBJ through its broadcast of a certain ground-breaking show. I'm also a weirdo who knows of KidMangoTV and the Invincible Entertainment stuff on YTA TV.)

"You are The AH TV" Reddit has a kids CHANNEL NOW!?

 

[Takao]

"You are The AH TV" Reddit has a kids CHANNEL NOW!?

Not quite.

 

[Jeff Harris]

I've actually made a thread on what caused the demise of PBJ, and I've seen comparisons with Toons. The channel namely had any marketing, it only had 19 affiliates, and Comcast bought out Classic Media, which immediately killed the channel completely afterwards

I can't fault Comcast for killing PBJ though.

As you said, there weren't many affiliates to begin with, and it was becoming a costly endeavor for the notoriously cheap Luken to maintain. Plus, they were reluctant to add more outside programming to the channel.

Losing Dreamworks Classics just gave Luken a reason to kill a failed channel like PBJ and focus more on the ones with more of a national footprint, mostly Retro Television Network.

 

[LinusFan303]

I used PBJ as an example of external forces basically killing a network off. I could've easily used Sinclair's failed buyout of Tribune resulting in Kidsclick's demise or something else. I'm not suggesting that MeTV Toons will be as unsuccessful as those two were, just pointing out that hinging so much onto one company (whose actions you don't control) can be a bad thing. MeTV's SATAM cartoon block seems to reach more people than those other two either did.

(Side note: I was familiar with PBJ through its broadcast of a certain ground-breaking show. I'm also a weirdo who knows of KidMangoTV and the Invincible Entertainment stuff on YTA TV.)

You just reminded me the that the old YooToo America TV channel still exists. They've just been going and going, good for them.

You make a good point about being linked so much to one company might not be good for them. A probably bad effect of Ted Turner's 80's buying spree then the 95 merger giving warner a large ownership of cartoons including a studio that made a large swath of cartoons that broadcast networks bought.

 

[Jeff Harris]

I used PBJ as an example of external forces basically killing a network off. I could've easily used Sinclair's failed buyout of Tribune resulting in Kidsclick's demise or something else. I'm not suggesting that MeTV Toons will be as unsuccessful as those two were, just pointing out that hinging so much onto one company (whose actions you don't control) can be a bad thing. MeTV's SATAM cartoon block seems to reach more people than those other two either did.

(Side note: I was familiar with PBJ through its broadcast of a certain ground-breaking show. I'm also a weirdo who knows of KidMangoTV and the Invincible Entertainment stuff on YTA TV.)

A few more words:

PBJ was a failed network with a small footprint run by Luken, a notoriously cheap company that didn't build the channel up nor want to spend any money to acquire more third-party shows. Comcast was not the reason the network ended, it was all Luken, who could have easily gone to other producers, most notably Corus and Wildbrain. However, they didn't because, as mentioned before, Luken is a cheap company that won't spend money on programming.

KidsClick was a failed endeavor from the jump because they programmed in hours when kids were heading to school on weekday mornings as opposed to more far-reaching afternoon slots when kids are out of school on affiliates that kids rarely watched. Sinclair's failed attempt to buy Tribune had no bearing whatsoever on KidsClick's fate (KidsClick stayed on for nearly a year after Sinclair ended that pursuit). That said, it was more trouble than it was worth because Sinclair had to pay federal fines for violating parts of the Children's Television Act by airing Hot Wheels ads during a Hot Wheels series, a no-no in kids' media.

Just have a little optimism and faith about what's happening at MeTV Toons. It's really not that bad of a situation. Try to imagine the best-case scenario and don't hope for the worst.

Be optimistic about something for once in your life! Too many people are defeatist even before something happens and miss out on good things and their blessings. Instead of anticipating disappointment and doom as inevitabilities, look forward to good things and support the folks who are trying to make something great happen.

 

[Takao]

KidsClick was a failed endeavor from the jump because they programmed in hours when kids were heading to school on weekday mornings as opposed to more far-reaching afternoon slots when kids are out of school on affiliates that kids rarely watched. Sinclair's failed attempt to buy Tribune had no bearing whatsoever on KidsClick's fate (KidsClick stayed on for nearly a year after Sinclair ended that pursuit). That said, it was more trouble than it was worth because Sinclair had to pay federal fines for violating parts of the Children's Television Act by airing Hot Wheels ads during a Hot Wheels series, a no-no in kids' media.

I don't agree that the Tribune deal had nothing to do with what happened to KidsClick. The block's national partner was This TV, which was owned by Tribune (coincidentally, originally operated by Weigel). I don't think it's a coincidence the block launched on a network Sinclair were in the process of buying and it left the same network just weeks before it was officially confirmed that deal was dead (there had been lots of discussion that sale wasn't going through long beforehand). That left KidsClick on Sinclair's scattered affiliates and their least popular national digi-net, TBD. They pulled the plug nine months later. It's entirely possible KidsClick was on death's door regardless, but it's hard to see how having its national reach slashed didn't expediate that.

But that's not a conversation for this thread.

Just have a little optimism and faith about what's happening at MeTV Toons. It's really not that bad of a situation. Try to imagine the best-case scenario and don't hope for the worst.

I wasn't really being pessimistic, just pointed out what I viewed as the network's potential biggest weakness. WBD isn't exactly the most stable of companies (at this point, none of the legacy media companies are). My point with both of those is that (at least to my eyes) external issues played a big role in their demise. There's an obvious potential external problem with MeTV Toons, but like I said, if that ever happens, it'll be years from now and there are potential relaunch opportunities.

 

[Jeff Harris]

I don't agree that the Tribune deal had nothing to do with what happened to KidsClick. The block's national partner was This TV, which was owned by Tribune (coincidentally, originally operated by Weigel).

Flip that, reverse it.

This TV was co-owned by MGM and, briefly, by Weigel. Weigel left the partnership in May 2013 to form MeTV and Tribune handled the THIS's management for MGM and moved it from the Weigel-owned WCIU to WGN in November 2013.

Weigel had no part in the operations of THIS TV when KidsClick was on the air from July 2017 to March 2019. Oh, and THIS TV moved over to Sinclair-owned TBD in July 2018, less than a month before Sinclair couldn't broker a deal with Tribune.

 

[SpecialColorfull]

BRB making a "Why did previous attempts at Animations channels fail thread" NAO.

 

[harry580]

BRB making a "Why did previous attempts at Animations channels fail thread" NAO.

watch this become a real thread

 

[Jeff Harris]

I wasn't really being pessimistic, just pointed out what I viewed as the network's potential biggest weakness. WBD isn't exactly the most stable of companies (at this point, none of the legacy media companies are). My point with both of those is that (at least to my eyes) external issues played a big role in their demise. There's an obvious potential external problem with MeTV Toons, but like I said, if that ever happens, it'll be years from now and there are potential relaunch opportunities.

You are so being pessimistic, clearly anticipating the worst to happen and sowing a lot of fear in this thread. You're hoping for the channel to fail because of an unfounded fear based on an antithetical situation. It's as if you're hoping for WBD to just screw the channel over even before it launches, and that's unfair to all involved.

As I said before, stop hoping for the worst to happen with this channel.

 

[Jeff Harris]

I think I'm done here. I'm hoping for the best when it comes to MeTV Toons when it launches in June and not going to let doomsayers ruin my anticipation for the channel.

I had my fill with pessimistic folks hoping for the worst, so, I'm gone.

Again.

 

[Zorak Masaki]

Hopefully they'll be able to get some bigger sponsors and not the usual law/doctor ads that these type of "retro" channels usually get. Also, if they show movies, I wonder which ones they'll show, they probably have the rights to the entire H-B and animated WB movie catalog, but will they show newer films with WB characters like Space Jam or Back in Action?

 

[hobo 7]

Knowing they're airing 2000s shows, I hope they air Mucha Lucha. Hasn't aired in 15 years.