"Avengers: Endgame" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

[Yojimbo]

Avenge the Fallen.​

Avengers Endgame
Release Date: April 26, 2019 (April 25 advance screenings)
Studio: Walt Disney Pictures, Marvel Studios
Directors: Anthony and Joe Russo
MPAA Rating: PG -13 (for sequences of sci-fi violence and action, and some language)
Screenwriters: Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely
Starring: Brie Larson, Scarlett Johansson, Karen Gillan, Paul Rudd, Roberty Downey Jr., Tessa Thompson, Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Josh Brolin, Bradley Cooper, Jeremy Renner, Mark Ruffalo, Gwyneth Paltrow, Danai Gurira, Don Cheadle, Benedict Wong, Dave Bautista, Evangeline Lilly, Tom Holland, Jon Favreau, Pom Klementieff, Elizabeth Olsen, Sebastian Stan, Michelle Pfeiffer, Winston Duke, Tilda Swinton, Chadwick Boseman, Kerry Condon, Frank Grillo, Ty Simpkins, Letitia Wright, Emma Fuhrmann, Sean Gunn, Hiroyuki Sanada, Terry Notary
Runtime: 181 minutes

Plot Summary: The grave course of events set in motion by Thanos that wiped out half the universe and fractured the Avengers ranks compels the remaining Avengers to take one final stand in Marvel Studios' grand conclusion to twenty-two films, Avengers: Endgame.

Discuss Avengers Endgame right here!

Related Discussion:
-Avengers Endgame News & Discussion, Part 1
-Avengers Endgame News & Discussion, Part 2
-Captain Marvel Talkback Thread (Spoilers)
-Ant-Man and the Wasp Talkback Thread
-Avengers: Infinity War Talkback Thread
-Black Panther Talkback Thread
-Thor Ragnarok Talkback Thread
-Spider-Man: Homecoming Talkback Thread
-Doctor Strange Talkback Thread
-Captain America: Civil War Talkback Thread
-Avengers: Age of Ultron Talkback Thread
-Guardians of the Galaxy Talkback Thread
-Captain America: The Winter Soldier Talkback Thread
-Thor: The Dark World Talkback Thread
-Marvel's The Avengers Talkback Thread
-Marvel Cinematic Universe News & Discussion (Spoilers)

 

[Gold Guy]

Holy cow! It's late, and my brain is all over the place, so I'll give full thoughts another time, but man. This is definitely a once-in-a-lifetime movie. The scope and ambition of it...dang. It's not literally perfect, I have some gripes (this could potentially be a very controversial movie for fans of certain characters), but the stuff it does pull off and accomplish...The Russos did it, they managed the landing. They once again do really well juggling all the character arcs. And that third act...!

There are so many ways this film could have gone wrong, but somehow it doesn't. The future of the MCU will be very different after this, I think. But I enjoyed it, and the three hours flew by.

 

[TheLemsterPju]

Holy crap! The timeline just got even more confusing!

So...is Agents of SHIELD season six going to explain all this in a clear enough way? Because, awesome movie and a perfect conclusion and all, but I can't comprehend what happened with the timeline...

 

[Magmaster12]

What they did to get Steve out of the picture was incredibly selfish, out of character and almost completely out of nowhere for him. It was very messed up for him to give up on the life he built in the future, especially since it leaves the Avengers without any real leadership now that Tony is gone as well.

 

[GM_Comand]

Well I know I’m going to be in the minority here but I didn’t think Endgame was all that great.
Also, I really didn’t like how they had Carol wearing Mar-vell’s costume/color’s instead of her own during the last battle. That just rubbed me the wrong way for some reason.

 

[reflection01]

What they did to get Steve out of the picture was incredibly selfish, out of character and almost completely out of nowhere for him. It was very messed up for him to give up on the life he built in the future, especially since it leaves the Avengers without any real leadership now that Tony is gone as well.

Not at all. He didn’t give up on that life. He completed his mission and then went back to live his own life.

I thought that was very well done and a fitting end to all three Cap films and Agent Carter.

The Russo’s TV roots came through. IW and EG were a perfect two part season finale. I look forward to Season 2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[johnnybro2883]

Did ant-man go inside Thanos butt and expanded?

 

[Gold Guy]

It's both the ultimate culmination of what's come before and the ultimate love letter to MCU fans. Endgame may not work as well for someone who hasn't seen any previous MCU films, but for anyone who has, it might be hard to leave disappointed.

The Russos (and screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely) deserve so much credit for pulling off the seemingly impossible. They have to juggle so many character arcs, many of them continued from various MCU films, but they do it. All the various planes land, so to speak.

They also deserve praise for how they handled the time travel part of the movie. The continuity geek inside me screamed internally throughout the second act. Seeing various MCU scene recreated, but from different angles and perspectives, had me giddy. All the references, callbacks, and the various cameos were amazing. Also, Marvel was just flexing with how many A list actors they were able to get together just to film brief, sometimes wordless, cameos. It's so cool seeing all these old faces again. I know a lot of people have been down on cinematic universes lately, but this film shows what it can accomplish when done right.

As usual, the character work and acting helps make the movie. Most of the MCU actors have already cemented themselves, and even then, some of them give their best performances here. Downey Jr and Chris Evans fully embody their characters, and they will be missed. I think this is also Paul Rudd's strongest time as Ant-Man, and Jeremy Renner gets his most emotional Hawkeye arc so far. And does anyone still think Natasha is emotionless? Johansson kills it here. I could go on, but yeah.

As an Iron Man fan, I'm obviously saddened by the ending, but I also love that he got to go out as a hero, and his final lines could not be any better. I was also very pleased with Captain America's final scenes. It was what I had hoped would happen to him.

The climax is insane. The most "comic book" action scene yet, surpassing the Civil War and Infinity War action beats. Filming it was probably a nightmare.

I do have some problems, though. Thor's character arc, and, uh, weight gain, didn't sit right with me. His future with the Guardians is super intriguing, though, and I LOVED the scene with his mother. Hemsworth is super fun, but I feel the Thor jokes were taken slightly too far.

Ruffalo has a LOT of fun as the new Hulk, I have no problems with him, but man, I was waiting for that Thanos rematch. And while Josh Brolin still has presence as Thanos, I felt the villain had less to do here - but it's ultimately understandable, since this was more about the Avengers then Thanos.

Some of the time travel rules were complicated, but I'll leave those for smarter people to mull over.

But as a whole, I greatly enjoyed this possibly once-in-a-lifetime movie. I grew up with the MCU, and while I'm sad to see this part of it end, I'm also excited for the future.

 

[honorableninja]

IT WAS EPIC!

truly a remarkable ending to the first 11 years of this universe r.i.p Antony stark it all began with Iron man.

my only two compliants was how I wish Natasha had been there leading that all female charge against thanos's army it should have been Hawkeye.

and why the hell was Ross at Tony's funeral after all that bastard had done he had no right to be there.

Also have to wonder if now the Marvel tv shows will now remain set in the five year period with the exception of some of the Disney streaming shows.

 

[Spider-Man]

That was really great and a really satisfying end to the first 10 years of MCU movies. The action was really well done, the story was good and there were so many great nods to both the movies and the comics themselves. I thought the story was maybe a little flawed and the movie did drag in a few spots, especially during the time heist section, but overall it was a great time. Hawkeye and Black Widow fighting while trying to sacrifice themselves couldve been done better to as it was getting to the point where it was almost funny and that robbed that scene of its impact some. The scene at the end where Peter and Ned do their special handshake actually made me tear up a little. There were actually a few scenes where I got a little misty. Peter Parker reappearing and he and Stark hugging also got to me. The crows I saw the movie with was cheering and really enjoying themselves. I love that Steve got his happy ending and Tony making that sacrifice was the perfect way to end their stories. I also like that the movie seeded a few ideas for the future like A-Force and Thor with the Guardians. This is a once-in-a-lifetime event and I'm glad Marvel was able to stick the landing. Can't wait to see it again!

 

[Jean74]

Movie has grossed up to $60M and could gross up to $1B in just this weekend. How insane is that.

 

[Dudley]

I ended up spoiling the movie for me through the leaks shown a week ago, the Wikipedia page, and just from mixed reviews from fans.
I don’t feel bad, I wouldn’t be able to see it until 2 weeks after it’s debut. Plus 3 hours is too long for me. I don’t mind just waiting to rent.
It’s strange, maybe it’s because I have other stuff going on in life, or it could be franchise fatigue, but the need to rush out and see these kind of movies are gone for me.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

WARNING: Super Long review of this movie with obvious spoilers that i'm putting in spoiler tags for that and for being well super long.

Spoiler

Well this is the film I've been eagerly awaiting a year for. Infinity War was my favorite film of last year and lived up to the hype of Thanos and of the epic it would bring and yeah we all knew at the time this status quo he made wouldn't be kept for long but again the fun for me was finding out the how and why of that then anything else. The only other thing I have to say is that I first learned of the term Endgame from the Sonic Archie comics back in 1997 (I say that begrundenly considering the writer of that book Ken Penders is trying to take credit for that even though yeah that term has existed for far longer then that) which I always thought just meant the end but like at the comics at the time it meant one solid end to something with other stories to come that do different things. For now though how was this conclusion to 11 years of movies and three phases of the MCU?

Okay for anyone who complains that Marvel movies are "too silly" and none of them can be really serious needs to really shut the frick up because this one is like the most serious god dang movie and it earns it. I mean there are laughs and action beats and hijinks but god dern did the Russos go hard on the feels with this one and for the most part they really did earn it.

Honestly my biggest complaint about this movie is... it's not really nitpicking I don't think but there are two things that happened that I don't think were explained very well. The first is that in the Avengers 2012 timeline they go into Loki manages to escape with the Space Stone and... we never see him again. Like at all. I was expecting there to be an after credits bit with him plotting something and then being taken out but no he just escapes. Granted there are lots of interesting possibilities with that but that feels like something we should of seen more of especially since it was made very clear "look you need to make sure that the balance of the universe is secured by sending the stones back to the time they came from where they came from and not to have them to out of place". Like that was hammered in over and over again along with "you can't use them to bring back people from the dead if their death wasn't because of the stones" so it kind of feels like the Russos dropped the ball on that. Granted it is an amusing scene and it is like Loki to trick his way out of death and I guess you could argue "well Thor probably just like got him later and took the space stone back to Asgard" but again feels like that wasn't well explained. Also I don't really get why Gamora isn't in the ending. Yeah the Avengers Infinity War Gamora is dead but what happened to the Guardians of the Galaxy Gamora? You can't say "well she was out of her timeline and was zapped back" when that isn't how this works. Like in Samurai Jack when Ashi died they explained that's how SJ's Time Travel works but this movie made it clear in the MCU when you time travel you aren't changing your future and what happens to you through the travels remains the same. Thus why Steve was able to do what he did at the end. Thus there should of been a Gamora with the other Guardians. I mean the current Nebula is still around after having killed her past self so really what reason is there that Gamora isn't around? Based on that image at the end I think it's implied that Peter is still looking around for her but... where did she go exactly? Is that going to be the point of the third movie trying to find Gamora again because I'm not sure if I'm up for a "hero has to convince person who they are again after forgetting it" sort of story. Especially since if Thanos is dead wouldn't Gamora be open to the idea of at least being with her sister who is with the Guardians even if she doesn't know the group? Eh guess we'll see what Gunn does whenever that third one comes out.

Honestly again those were my biggest gripes as this was a movie I was oddly enough glued to once it really started getting going in the 5 years later segment... but for a reason different then well near a lot of other Marvel Cinematic Universe movies. I mean yeah there are good comedic bits and action scenes obviously but what stuck out to me more then most any other movie we've seen is the dour and seriousness. And granted the Russos usually have that but it's either about much more smaller or personal stakes as seen in the other Captain America sequels they did or even with Infinity War though it did get serious and more heavy whenever Thanos was around it felt like there were a lot more jokes and cracks in that one compared to this movie. Which isn't a bad thing really because quite honestly this is the perfect example of how you do a serious and heavy and weighty movie within a comic book universe. The problem the DCEU had was trying to start out like that and not really make us care about the characters or their scenarios so when hit with the dour and somberness it didn't really have any weight to it. However this really did because yeah so much of this movie especially the first third is sitting back and reflecting on how they failed and how things have changed. I mean the first scene is Clint's horrified reaction to realizing his family disappeared and then goes through this whole murderous Ronin alter ego after having literally nothing left and wanting those to die who are scum who are still alive and... man that just hits so very hard. Same with Tony being absolutely disgusted and giving up even giving the arc reactor to Steve about how they lost and going off, as well as Natasha and Steve talking about trying to move on and Scott's horrified reaction trying to see if his daughter was among one of the snapped victims and even scenes that have some more comedy to them like Thor actually chopping off present Thanos's head when finding out he snapped the stones away (BTW I am glad that variation of Thanos is dead and even if there is another Thanos as the villain it makes sense within the rules presented so you can have your villain overlord still feel that he won even if you can have another feel the full front of loss) as well as Thor having set up this village in Greenland and having becoming this fat drunk who just hangs out with Korg and Meik all day not even taking care of his people. I mean yeah those scenes are presented as funny but when you think about it and you realize how much loss and pain these characters have gone through and how that's reflected in how serious and somber the tone is you just feel the weight and it grips you throughout the three hour running time. Like seriously I was expecting I would like be bored or feel kind of sleepy or antsy throughout the movie and I guess like a small amount of stretches in the first third like Tony trying to figure out time travel and giving his daughter frozen popsicles to hide the fact he was swearing maybe went on... 5 seconds longer then it could of and uh... maybe that meeting about the people lost could of taken 2 less seconds to get to the point- okay see that's nitpicking if I'm being annoyed about seven freaking seconds. Because honestly this is what I wanted when I realized this would be a two parter: that there would be actual consequences and that we would really feel and have time to process the loss. Heck they even had the thing I kind of wanted of the idea of Tony having a daughter which means he would want to make sure they keep the reality and I like that they do. Yeah everyone came back who was snapped away but the 5 year difference still happened so I'm sure there's bound to be plenty of very awkward reunions (though thinking about it that means Peter's entire class was snapped away if apparently they are all the same age in Far From Home as he is and don't look any older. I also feel bad for the actress who played Cassie Lang in Ant Man/Ant Man And The Wasp because if there is a third Ant Man woman they have another Cassie Lang to work with who I hope is also shown her powers) and plain confusion that the world is going to have to work with but yeah I'm sure the Russos wanted you to feel the consequences and that yeah this was a "time heist" to solve the whole snapping problems but it wasn't something that was just going to be totally retconned and that people forgot about. No it happened which means yeah the MCU is living in the post snapped world which is pretty cool and honestly something even the comics kind of chickened out on but they're owning even if it means the permancey of some of these losses. Speaking of losses guess we should go over the characters and their journeys through this film.

Iron Man: Let's talk about these characters in order of who lost and are no longer Avengers so of course you have to start with the granddaddy of the cinematic universe. Who yeah passed away which I admit wasn't surprising since it felt obvious to me that either Captain America or Tony was going to die as that would be the most thematic and impactful and in a way we had both but Tony's was the most obvious. And I have to admit that was a bad ass way to go; bringing back the whole "I am Iron Man" line from the first movie as essentially his last non pre recorded words and finally getting the one up on Thanos. But as hinted at before he went through a major arc in this movie. I did like showing him actually getting along with Nebula (I was kind of expecting them to fight more but.... I mean if you literally saw everyone else snapped away and you have no one else there to talk besides a sort of stranger who you'd be on the same side with it wouldn't make sense to show the two sniping at one another especially in a "you kind of have to get along scenario") but again made sense he would be done with wanting to go after Thanos until presented with the whole time travel situation and like how a part of him was kind of unwilling to see if there was a possible chance of it working but being on board when there was and even Pepper telling him "getting you to stop is one of the few things in live I have failed at." You do get some more classic quippy stark (heh literally with the Avengers rebit) on the actual time heist with him telling Scott to give him the minor heart attack but then being knocked away by past Hulk and having to improvise the next spot the Tesserect was at... hmmm thinking about it feels like maybe they should of called Carol Danvers to be part of their plan saying "hey we found a way to bring everyone back and have established we can call you up whenever we want and considering you're probably familiar with the infinity stones as well this would make sense as part of something you should be in" but eh I can overlook that nitpick. Because again it actually does lead to another serious intense scene with Steve meeting the young variation of his father right before he was about to be born (which I guess Means Tony is technically 49 by our regular time standards but yeah 5 years in the future now to 54 so that works) and actually getting to see his dad actually nervous about being a father and trying to give him advice. This feels like something that could of been really sappy but how Robert Downy Jr played it made it really work and the fact they didn't go too overboard and have Howard really think they had a connection other then "that guy felt familiar" made it grounded. And then you had the actual battle (I'm probably going to have that be it's own bit to talk about) and his death and then everyone gathering for his eulogy and the recording he left to everyone since yeah I can see Tony thinking he would need one before the whole Time Heist and nice last words for the guy. Honestly Iron Man wasn't ever my absolute favorite hero of the MCU but I get why he is the grand daddy and has carried this franchise for so long and how impactful this ending was in how that was delivered and honestly that was executed flawlessly. Again this seems to me what DCEU wanted to do with superman's death in Batman v Superman except that was stupidly handled... and rushed... and he came back anyway. No Tony's not coming back from this one and probably for the best. Marvel proved they can have new heroes step up and this was about the last showcase for the old guard and in that regard we got a good showcase for Stark. Heh I get a feeling on a different series we're going to see some Starks die soon but talk about that later for now though have to cover....

Captain America: Again the Russos didn't really have much for Cap to do in the last movie but surely make up for it in this one. One thing I really like is how it does take awhile for Steve and Tony to really be on speaking terms again with Steve still wanting to try and take on Thanos but with Tony totally done with the idea. And even after 5 years actually being the first to actually buy into Scott's Time Heist idea and get things rolling again by re-establishing the team. I am also glad to see Steve get that shield back that Tony made to show the two have finally squared things away and actually are on the same side again. And though at first we do get some more just goofy shennigans with Steve in the past from him actually getting to do a nod to that stupid ass "Nazi Cap" the comics did with him doing a hail hydra albeit for a reason and then clashing with is past self and the two bouncing off attacks from one another I am glad things got serious actually in 1970. Though we don't get an actual back and forth talk as at first seemed all Cap was doing was stalling younger Hank Pym (who actually does get a scene in this movie which I admit I wasn't expecting) he actually does see Peggy Carter and almost reaches out to her in one of those "oh can't because that would break our mission but the pain of actually having a live with the person he loves does tempt him" which yeah comes abound later which I'll get to. And though I want to save that awesome giant epic armies clash for later I am glad to see on the three on one battle Steve hold his own by actually proving to be worthy of Mjohinir and weild it in battle for awhile with his shield as well. Honestly that is such an epic combo that I know has been done in the comics (heck in one DC crossover Superman wielded both the hammer and Cap's shield) but seeing it in live action was really satisfying. As well as finally getting an Avengers Assemble. Like yeah they were saving it but if people had known what they were saving it for they wouldn't of complained of him only doing it now. And I have to say I was really surprised that he actually did survive the battle and at first thought "well guess they can still have Cap around" but then they actually found a really good different way to end his story: instead of just continuing on as a soldier Cap goes back to the past and winds up having a live with Peggy Carter and seems like it was a really good one if he still had the ring on after 70+ years (at first I was wondering why even though pretty old Cap still looked better then Peggy did despite being a decade older but oh yeah super soldier serium. I guess though the affects of aging still hit more then like they ever would in the comics though) and then speaks to Sam and has him accept the new Captain America role. Heh wonder what that means for that Falcon and Winter Soldier series but then again WandaVision is still a thing despite Vision still being dead so looks like Marvel is going to have to start revealing some of it's secrets now that this movie's out. Again though felt like we ended in a good place with Cap's journey and felt it had a lot of weight to it.

Black Widow: I have to admit of all the characters to die in this one and stay dead, Black Widow is the one that surprised me the most. I kind of thought Natasha was save since she has a movie coming up. sighs Guess that means it IS a prequel film or there's like some sort of alternate clone that just so happens to look like Scarlett Johnannson running around. I guess I'll worry and complain about that in the Black Widow film depending on how they handle that because it makes total sense with the character. We didn't really get any time with Widow in the last movie but I am glad though we did get some amusing scenes (loved the one during the montage of trying to find out where all the Infinity Stones were of just lying down on the table chatting with the others about possibly trying to find a space to get 3 in one) we did get some good ones on her character. Like her talking with Cap about having the job that gives her a purpose even if she gets nothing from it, actually talking to Clint in his Ronin persona and saying no one should be judged on their worse and should be given a chance if you know there's more for them and then fighting with him over who would get to sacrifice who. I guess you could kind of go into semantics and say "well if the whole point of the last movie is that you don't trade lives why were they jumping at the chance to do so" but like if put in that situation where there is no fighting chance otherwise it makes sense and I do appreciate that they set up the whole soul stone thing to pay off with Natasha doing it to essentially save the universe. It does suck that means she was the only one not at the big final battle but in a way it makes sense; her journey was about finding purpose and happiness in some form and having found it with this family willing to give everything up for them works plus I am glad we got that moment of Bruce/Hulk mentioning wanting to save her and trying to use the gauntlet for that even if it didn't work over and over. Again feels like the last movie didn't have time really to do anything with that bond but glad this movie found a purpose for it.

Thor: I have to admit I was not expecting to see after years upon years of the super muscular and well sculpted Chris Hemsworth to see him get ridiculously out of shape to play the chubby Thor we see through most of the movie. Like yeah that was something certainly hid by any of the advertisements but I get the direction the Russos were going for: Infinity War had made this whole big arc Thor went on to try and get this new weapon to channel the zenith of his powers to kill Thanos and then he wound up giving totally into vengeance and failed and thus just became a pathetic wreck. I have to admit one of the best jokes was him chilling with Korg and Meik and getting into this yelling match online with some kid about this video game they were playing and threatening to off him with his lightning powers but yeah this is probably Thor at the lowest despite still in a sense having all of his incredible power. Because of how much he had lost and how his plan to make it count for something failed and the little he does have he doesn't want anything to do with which I think is an interesting arc. And not one I thought would be wrapped up by going to of all things Thor The Dark World. I mean it makes sense and I have to admit also loved Thor describing how the Aether wasn't called a stone and his relationsihp with Jane no longer being a thing but when you hear the team going back to some of their movies to correct things, you would not think that movie. Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy sure but Thor 2? Again the movie I'm in the minority on actually still sort of liking to this day? Granted it makes sense plotwise and that's why I thought they did it but then they went the extra mile and gave it a character purpose. I mean first off they actually did have Natallie Portman back (who I'm surpirsed agreed to do something with the MCU again but guess they told her "look it's just the one time thing you know we can just get a look alike you to do it and then we'll be done for you so please just go back to film these a couple of days you won't really even get any lines") but then by tying in it actually having Thor have this whole scene with Frigga and her realizing which Thor he is and actually talking him through doing what needs to be done even knowing she likely won't survive. I thought the moment of her death in Dark World was fine but this actually made it a lot sadder as you really get a sense the connection these two had and how much her passing affected him but how he needs to grow from it. And though that was done well with Rocket trying to coax him (BTW Though Rocket Raccoon had some good moments like calling Tony "a genius on earth" and how he snuck on Jane or being fine with Thor and Star lord fighting to the death with knives at the end he didn't really have an arc or anything intersting character wise to talk about so not giving him a slot here) it really stuck with this scene. Which IMHO felt like the Russos were saying "yes people we're so good we made you feel something that happened in that Thor movie we know most of you didn't care for" and actually got away with it well. I think Thor still had a lot of good barbs too throughout this adventure from being tempted into doing things for booze, being fine with Steve weilding Mjonir but saying he can't have the big hammer and the ending bit he had with Starlord. As yeah that's how Thor's story ends: instead of ruling over the rest of the Asgardian he gives that to Valkyrie (who to be fair also kind of abanonded them for years and went around drinking but kept more in shape about it and has at least been trying now to be better) while going with the other Guardians of the Galaxy. I doubt he'll be in Volume 3 and likely just caught a ride to find some other place in the universe (since I guess he can only teleport somewhere with the ax if he knows where that is) but still appreciate that team up and if Thor at least cameod in Volume 3 doubt anyone would mind. I guess this is also what Chris meant about being open to another Thor movie because yeah there's still other places you could go with Thor unlike Cap and Steve whose stories have been fully wrapped up but for now this is a good place to leave him off.

The Hulk: Something I'm glad the advertisement didn't spoil was that yeah we knew Bruce Banner was going to become the Hulk again but I did not expect the whole Bruce Banner/Hulk shared form or Bruce Hulk as I'm going to call it. As yeah sans a couple of bits in the Hulk buster what you saw in the regular trailers is pretty much all regular Mark Ruffalo/Bruce Banner in the movie as he spends the entire rest of the movie in that combined form. Like with Gamora/Starlord actually becoming more of a couple in Infinity War I don't really mind the fact we are progressing with the character offscreen now that time has actually passed and also thinking about it, this is a compromise we have seen a fair amount of times in the comic. Of the two personalities actually talking to one another and working on a deal to not be at odds with one another. In this case Hulk having his body all the time while Bruce being in control mentally. Again Avengers said that he had controlled the form to always be angry enough to regularly release it (which again Incredible Hulk did hint at in that movie despite how weird the continuity is on that) so this is just another sort of glimpse of that. Oddly that does probably make in terms of pure character progression though Bruce the one who winds up improving and actually having the most positive outlook at the end. I mean he's got a banged up arm but that will obviously heal in time but yeah otherwise still has his powers and mind regularly. Granted still dealing with the loss of Natasha but that's probably as much regular character as he has. I guess like a certain other character though he was more for the comic relief and he did have a lot of good moments with that. From actually being adored by the kids (more on that later though), pointing out he has no idea how the time travel should work though later when studying pointing out how this form of time travel is different from others, having to act like the regular Hulk and his annoyance at having to smash everything nearby, obviously not getting anywhere regularly dealing with the Ancient One (hmmm I am wondering if a bit of the continuity is off since though the Ancient One did see potential in Steven in Doctor Strange I don't think it was suppose to be implied she could see the future or anything but then again she was messing with time with the dark dimension and time stone anyway and since she did have it she could of seen the future for all we know so I'll allow it) though him actually explaining that they are going to put the stones back after using them and actually stating Steven gave up the stone as part of this actually did feel like good enough rationale for her giving him the stone. I think we also did have a shot out to one of the hulk's most infamous comic moments from Secret Wars in how he held up the collapsing building (I only say this as I know of that cover and know the Russos love Secret Wars and would come back to do a movie on that which seems unlikely at this point in the MCU) and hey props on him actually being the one to snap all the people back together since this time around care is given to how few could handle the power of the stones so it makes sense he would be charged with that and how he would handle his power. Again though important and having some bits feels like he's the one who went through sort of the least emotionally of the main six but still had his part to play and did that well.

Hawkeye/Ronin: You know i do kind of wish we actually saw more of the Ronin personality that Clint took on. I mean we do see a full mission and I am glad that they actually show him off the guy (granted you could tell if this was rated R that sword would of shown actually impacting and splattering a lot of blood but it was still handled in the right dark tone) but I honestly could of gone with more of it. Though I admit I do really like those "really take the law into their own hands after tragedy strikes and claw their mortals away especially if they see an unfair balance going around" and Hawkeye telling Ahiko "Thanos took away half the universe and you survived. I won't make that mistake" or something like that is a pretty chilling line and yeah I can sort of see Clint snapping after having his entire family taken out like that. Again I like how kind of innocent and quiet the movie starts out just seeing Hawkeye interacting with his daughter violet showing her how to shoot the arrow and then the snappening occuring and them all disappearing and him being left devastated. I guess it is to make up for him not being in the last movie to give him the first scene of this one... that and besides some talk we really don't see him again until that afformentioned scene like... 40-45 minutes into the movie (yeah again the Russos and Feige lied the whole "only show first 15 minutes" is pretty BS but eh they still hid most of the surpirses away regardless so kudos there guys) and then we get him confronting Natasha about it. And i really like how that was played up with the whole "I don't judge people based on their worst impulses" even though you should and also appreciate really showing the two's friendship and trust in one another from being chosen as partners to get the stone to bantering some referencing Budapest again and that bit about Rocket and then of course that whole "have to give up one of your life for the stone" back and forth. Again I don't have anything against Clint and I get why of the two it'd make sense for him to be picked but I was still rooting on him knocking out Natasha so she would survive but like how it became a fight between them about it and then her slipping in his grip and him walking away with the stone in rage at that. Honestly there's this weird thing I've noticed that maybe due to technically being the most normal Avenger of the group there's always a moment in these movies where you think Clint could die like when maybe hew as brainwashed into fighting Natasha in the first one (I mean if you didn't know context or saw trailers or whatever) or saving that family from those turrets and getting saved by Quicksilver and yeah now this and he keeps surviving. I also like him using his archery against Thanos's beast creatures and helping out a bit in the ending battle though again though at least happy for him being reuinted with his family did still feel we could of gotten more of him in his darkened form. Honestly I do think that due to kind of having so many ideas and so many characters to juggle sometimes it does seem like the Russos cut various character bit and exchanges to hit the high points that could of been interesting that other directors even in the MCU don't do but The Russos are obviously more focused on big picture stuff and the character bits they do hit still matter so you can't really fault them that much. Still good stuff from Clint and uh... maybe I'll check out his Disney+ show if I wind up getting that.

Nebula: You know I am glad that both of these movies used the fact that both Gamora and Nebula were actually children of Thanos to actually give them a lot of significant character moments. Though honestly as emotional and interesting as the stuff with little Gamora and Thanos were and actually showing Thanos cared really actually made him seem more like a character, Nebula got a hell of a lot more to do then Gamora did in the last movie. Honestly next to the original six Avengers I'd say she was probably the most important or focused on character in this entire cast which I have to admit I was not really expecting but actually appreciated seeing. Again when I was thinking of this movie I kind of thought how hilarious awkward Tony Stark and her getting along on that ship would be but I like the movie chose to play it more subtly and actually have some form of friendship or at least understanding (her postioning him to actually be sitting in a chair when he went to sleep having a message about Pepper) between the two literally being stuck and waiting to die until being saved by Captain Marvel. And also like her actually in a sense bonding with Rocket and probably spending time most with him going around during the five year break before being part of the whole Time Heist plan and actually being the most serious and straight forward talking about her experience with the stones (though that leading to a good "uh... whose going to do something about this?" bit with a seeming about to break Nebula) and actually bonding some with of all people James Rhodes/War Machine. Rhodey honestly did have a lot of good lines in the movie talking about how many time travel movies there are and saying apparently they're liars if in this universe time travel doesn't work that way and calling Star Lord an idiot before knocking him out and pointing out how there should be traps around the power stone but the only actual real serious character bit sans reactions everyone was having to say the snap and Tony's death was actually bonding some when Nebula talked about her mechanical upgrades and him admitting to being in the same boat due to his paralyization from Civil War. Though the real character and interest came from 2014 Nebula interacting with present Nebula. You know when thinking of this movie I wondered if there would be a shout out to how in Infinity Gauntlet Nebula was actually the last main villain taking the glove from Thanos but that wouldn't of made sense with the Nebula we have now and instead much more like the idea of actually having a serious confrintation between 2014 and regular Nebula. Like again most of the other Avengers seeing themselves were played up as jokes but not only was this serious for the plot as you know 2014 Nebula taking her original's place allowed 2014 Thanos to become the main ending villain, but you actually really did get to see how much the character has evolved and changed seeing her play off herself. Who yeah I guess until the idea of Ronan actually challenging Thanos with the stone's power and then the whole getting her arm cut off and then dealing with the Soverign people Nebula even hating Thanos would still feel he had control over her so you even feel bad when 2014 Nebula is trying to please her father and then being taken out by the original prime version of Nebula in that shoot out. And again I like the different take too on Nebula and Gamora bonding as sisters with this time 2014 Gamora asking current Nebula what their deal is as incentive to help her since you know in GOTG even at the beginning Gamora was close to betraying Thanos anyway but like the more personal twist this took. I'm also glad that though we had jokes with Nebula it was mostly her being annoyed or confused at the actions of others and even in contributing to some of the goofiness at the end (like the Thor vs Starlord challenge) still showing a more stoic and reserved sense of humor. Honestly I'm not sure if Thor will be in Guardians 3 but sure Nebula is and really felt a lot from her in this movie.

Ant Man: You know it's pretty obvious that this movie's opening weekend is going to make more money the entirety of Ant Man And The Wasp... which makes sense with how gangbusters Avengers does but it is also weird since yeah how important Ant Man And The Wasp is to this movie. I guess mostly in the fact that Scott was in it and it involved the Quantum Realm which involved time particles which could corrolate to time travel but yeah I do have to wonder how a lot of the people who didn't see that movie are confused wondering "wait why's the little Civil War guy talking about time travel all of a sudden?" But you know popularity or not it does also feel odd how honestly Scott's the one who gets the ball rolling and honestly does have a huge part in helping save half the universe. Yeah Tony and Bruce may of been the ones to actually crack how to do time travel but if Scott hadn't survived from being in the Quantrum Realm and thinking up the time heist idea, pretty much the snappening would of just been the status quo in the MCU which is a really weird thing to think about. Honestly most of Scott's serious moments though is when he's first introduced trying to find Cassie and hugging her more adult self since yeah when he's with the Avengers he's oddly enough sort of the comic relief of all of these really funny and entertaining characters. Which does make sense. In Ant Man and the Wasp I pointed out that oddly enough of all the main character in this franchise he probably is the most normal and standard and considering he hasn't really done any adventures with these guys it also makes sense he would be the one most amazed about everything from seeing the space ship to re seeing Hulk again and yeah probably one of the funniest scenes of this movie was the kids who wanted Hulk's autograph and Scott asking if they wanted his and them having no idea who he is and leading to this awkward exchange of Bruce trying to get them to do it and Scott not wanting it if they didn't care and I don't know that really got me and the rest of the audience quite well. I also like him trying to stick to the plan most through the Time Heist which yeah the Russos kept saying Infinity War was their heist movie but... I think they knew it wasn't and that was another one of their tricks as THIS was the heist movie especially Scott sneaking into the briefcase and even Iron Man's suit to get things going. And then having his big hero movie of doing the giant save at the end and getting the quantum tunnel going with Hope to help out as the others scoffed at the "modly old looking van" that he had it in. Honestly part of me kind of wishes this was a bit of a longer movie for him and his team so we could have more moments of say Wasp getting along with the other Avengers and even of Pym forgiving Stark for sort of screwing over him based on their past history but again kind of had to keep a focus to the core characters I get that. Still honestly despite a lot of this movie being an earned sort of bummer having Scott there to lighten things up really worked in this movie's favor and made him a real break out that I hope whenever we do get a third ant man reflects in that series finally getting the attention most other MCU films seem to get.

Captain Marvel: You know it's weird that of the new trio of Avengers, the one that had the most actual at least screen time even if not a lot of it was character development was Dr. Strange in Infinity War. Though Black Panther pops up and is cool in this and IW we don't see that much of him and honestly though important for various parts of the story we don't really get that much of Carol either. She goes on the mission in the beginning of the movie and obviously pops up near the end but yeah isn't in the movie that much. I guess I wasn't expecting it to be a super large role considering she was someone who only did a couple of weeks of work on Endgame but yeah she does only have a few spaces in the movie. IMHO they are important to talk about though for a variety of reasons. For one though she hasn't gotten uh "Russoed" and a lot added to her character like some of the other struggling Avengers I do feel we honestly have more of a character of what she is now even compared to her own movie: Obviously having some ego and high believe in her abilities but a generally good solider and support type who likes working on bigger picture "let's fix this the quickest' problems constantly busy due to having business elsewhere. I am glad the movie pointed out Carol hasn't been around patrolling I guess the universe outside of earth (sadly no amusing bit of Rocket asking exactly where was she as he may not of heard of her either or maybe he did and was surprisingly a fan... I don't know something could of been done with that) as well as having to deal with the whole Fallen fallout on various other planets. A bit off topic but I think a lot of people who complained about the whole resources argument keep forgetting that they are specifying what happens on earth forgetting that Thanos snapped away half of the universe's population forgetting that other sentient planets likely do have different infrastrucres and form of government that obviously require different types of operation then we know of on earth... but yeah again off topic talking about Carol and I do say I did like what we got of her. From tackling and headlocking current time line Thanos in the beginning to showing up lating and taking out that giant doom ship at the end and then yeah one on oneing Thanos. I find it interesting there are only two characters who really won a one on one with Thanos in actual combat and it wasn't any of the main Avengers but rather Scarlet Witch and yeah Carol Danvers. I am also glad this was an actual fight to and they had a back and forth and though Thanos headbutting her didn't work I did like him directly using the power stone to knock her away showing that yeah she can be knocked down and not always save the day. Which also shows how the Russos know how to use this kind of character better then anyone at DC. We saw that in Infinity War as well that despite Thor showing up there were still battles with the other characters around but Carol is suppose to be more the superman equilivent in terms of strongest within their respective universe so it's nice to show that despite being the strongest that doesn't mean she can do everything but can still help out and work well with the team. Sadly no little bit of her and Fury at the end other then just being there (sly on Samuel L Jackson to say "oh I didn't read anything for Endgame" to try and hint he wasn't in it when yeah he was he just didn't have any lines sadly) but guess the focus had to be on the main heroes and not the side ones and still glad she played her role and looked cool doing so.

Thanos: Again one thing I really appreciate is how they decided to go about making Thanos also the big baddie of this movie but still not actually disrupt the character we saw from the first movie. So we have the current Thanos actually being happy and building his farm and just having gotten rid of the Infinity Stones to ensure his snappening couldn't be changed so even when Thor kills him it does feel sort of empty. Like yeah no way should he be left alive (this is something honestly different from how the comics handled Thanos despite his crimes but the Russos kind of care more about actual consequence and stakes and have a better understanding that you do need to kill someone or have them die and have that stick then the comics obviously) but he doesn't end begging for mercy or even sour at the team any. He honestly seems happy having seen Nebula again before Thor cuts his head off and yeah that Thanos died feeling he accomplished what he set out to do and got to bask in it some but again, how do you still have a conflict without disrupting that actually interesting end for a character? You introduce Time Travel of course so you can have another version of Thanos, 2014 Thanos show up and now make him the main villain. But because of circumstance actually allow him to be a different take on the character and have more general rage or annoyance about him but for an actual explained reason. Again from 2014 Thanos's point of view he views himself essentially winning but then seeing these guys actually find a way to go back in time and take the stones to reverse what he did and allow the universe to fall back into the "madness" of overpopulation. Again it's pretty clear Thanos has had this goal and plan for awhile (I still believe especially with what the Russos revealed that he didn't mind losing a stone for awhile here and there if he knew what they were since they revealed Thanos "I'll do it myself" plan on grabbing all of them and making a big rush of it was inspired by finally finding out who actually knew where the Soul Stone was the only stone not activated yet that he had no idea where it would be) so the idea that you find out you accomplished what you stood out to do and then have people take that win and pretty much cheat you out of your victory and make your entire goal pointless in the end would pretty much tick everyone off so I get Thanos deciding to go from "leave half of them alive as an example of what can happen" to "you know what? Screw you I'm going to purge and reshape the universe so no one knows of people like you exist." So that way you have in a sense an even more deplorable and monsterous foe to fight but again not one just born out of wanting to be bad or from out of nowhere but from a justifable position at least to him. And honestly though I guess 2014 Thanos isn't as complex or in a sense as "noble" as the original Thanos that was the right choice to have this different take that you can have with his armor and weapon fighting our heroes more and being the last major obstacle. And they still make it clear how terrifyingly powerful he is since though Thor, Captain America And Iron Man score some hits he still takes the three of them out and even if there are some of the heroes who can fight him one on one he always finds a way out in a believable enough way and having that epic armies clash is a cool way to go out. And again "I am inevitable" "I am Iron Man" are awesome closing lines of this fight as is Thanos realizing he's lost and in utter horror has to sit down as he fades into dust. I know some people will be miffed to see another good villain taken out of the MCU but again it makes sense you wouldn't want someone like him around and he really makes his mark well even in this not as complex outing for the character so good stuff from him.

And of course I want to talk about that amazing epic battle. Because quite honestly though still enjoying the movie because of the dour moments and characters and jokes here and there I admit it did feel a bit empty not having a big action movie. I could kind of sense they were saving that especially having Thanos go to earth his with his forces but didn't really see how epic it would be until Falcon came in with the "on your right" and we see them literally bring in literally every single main hero character from the movies... well I guess not some of the Ravager teams but litearlly the other brought back Avengers and Black Panther and the Wakandan Soldiers and Dr. Strange and the various sorcerers and the full Guardians team and Wasp and Rescue and Spider Man and then as already described Captain Marvel. Again all leading to Steve finally doing an Avengers Assemble assembling literally every hero in some form or another we've seen in the past 22 movies. This is kind of what I was hoping we would get in Infinity War but what I was especially hoping to see here and honestly it did not disappoint as it was all pretty awesome. From Black Panther using his vibranium blasting to knock away soldiers when grabbing the gaunlet, Scarlet Witch telling Thanos she killed the one she loved and him not knowing her and Wanda going you're about to and tearing him apart with chaos magic (since again the only two people who can one on one Thanos in this movie are the female Avengers thinking about which is a neat little detail I like), Spider Man swinging on the hammer throw and then getting bailed out by Rescue and Valkyrie and reactions to his ride and the Lady Avengers teaming up to protect Captain Marvel as she prepares to use the gauntlet. Just lots of really cool bits. And it all looked really impactful and well coregraphed and... man I'm going to miss the Russos not just for their stories but for their action coregrpahy as well since not a lot of the other directions are as flutent here. I guess it would of been nice seeing some of the other liteuntants like Corveus Glave and Ebony Maw also get shredded before seeing everyone get dusted but again just an awesome epic action note. And credits for the previews that though spoiled some things (the three on one Thanos fight that would happen) didn't spoil how big and epic that last battle would be and how it's the kind of clash you can only get in something like Marvel that has built up these heroes so well.

So yeah really solid film I have to say. Very well done story good character moments some moments of comedy but oddly enough what I remember and appreciate most was how serious and somber this was whether it was in the moments of defeat or even of victory. It's this kind of send off that really shows how serious Marvel can be with it's films and how well that works because of how much we like the heroes and their struggles and how they can both amuse and entertain us. This is another easy contender of film of the year for me as it's going to have to take something amazingly epic to top this one and how much was poured into it.

 

[Nygma]

I wish Natasha had been there leading that all female charge against thanos's army it should have been Hawkeye.

Why Clint didn't get it: Tony was the final sacrificial play, and they likely didn't want two "family man sacrifices himself to keep/make safe the family he'll leave behind" deaths in the same movie.

 

[reflection01]

A friend of mine asked me if his kid could see Endgame without having seen the other films. I had to tell him no. No way. It’s amazing what Marvel has done. They made two films that basically require seeing most of the other films and those two films will probably well over $4B worldwide.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Freddy]

Do you still remember the more innocent time when the first Avengers movie succeeding felt like a miracle? I mean, it only had to balance meager six superheroes and tie together five movies worth of stories

Seriously though, I won't go in-depth and will stay as vague as possible. I was personally lucky enough to only have one thing spoiled for me and I was able to convince myself that it was just a troll being a troll, so it didn't affect my experience in any way whatsoever. I'm not really a spoiler-nazi, but there is something about not knowing about those big moneyshots and dramatic turn of events before seeing them.

If you are a fan of these movies, this is exactly what you could want from the big finale and more. I'm still interested to see what the future holds, but at the same time I feel so satisfied that if they revealed tomorrow that Spider-Man: Far from Home trailers and the announced upcoming movies were all just April's Fools jokes and the saga of MCU was over, I would have nothing to complain about.

And I saw this movie with the most perfect audience possible. The whole theater was filled with geeks like me, I could sense the excitement while waiting for the movie to start, all the inside jokes made everyone laugh, one epic moment got huge *applauses (hint: "I knew it!") and I heard people sobbing during the sad moments.

I don't know if Marvel can ever top this, even with all the big guns they are getting with Fantastic Four and X-Men, but maybe they don't need to. This is one of those "once in the lifetime" - type of experiences that you will cherish later.

*

Spoiler

That was a huge deal, since in Finnish movie theater culture you are supposed to enjoy the movie silently, unless laughing at its jokes, rather than constantly make noice and cheer. While I generally think that it should be that way (no offence, but I don't understand how you Americans can deal with people turning every movie screening into a huge frenzy), but I was so caught up in the moment that I couldn't help, but join them

 

[Radiant97]

Did ant-man go inside Thanos butt and expanded?

No, unfortunately.

On a serious, somewhat angry note, I suffered the displeasure of being spoiled ALL of the important character deaths (I'm sure whoever's watched the movie knows who they are). I guess it won't matter in the long run but for now, I'm upset. Now that that's out of the way, I still enjoyed this movie a lot. It's the perfect culmination of everything the MCU has established over the past decade. They managed to expertly handle each of the character arcs and tied them up nicely without turning the movie into a muddled mess, and the climax of the movie was just beautifully done, even if it was spoiled to me. Structurally speaking though, I think Infinity War is still the better movie, but in terms of emotional punch, Endgame packs the heaviest.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

I saw this in the morning and I enjoyed it, especially that it was a satisfying conclusion to the 22-film saga that began with Iron Man.

Spoiler

That being said, while I knew one of the original Avengers would die with the likelihood of either Steve (incorrect) or Tony (correct), I never knew that Natasha would die as well, given her film is currently in preproduction.

 

[TnAdct1]

I ended up spoiling the movie for me through the leaks shown a week ago, the Wikipedia page, and just from mixed reviews from fans.
I don’t feel bad, I wouldn’t be able to see it until 2 weeks after it’s debut. Plus 3 hours is too long for me. I don’t mind just waiting to rent.
It’s strange, maybe it’s because I have other stuff going on in life, or it could be franchise fatigue, but the need to rush out and see these kind of movies are gone for me.

Somewhat the same deal with me. Between being upset with how the ending to Infinity War was handled and the ads for Endgame not really doing anything to me, I just read spoilers for the film a couple of days before the film came out and be satisfied with that.

Spoiler

Black Widow: I have to admit of all the characters to die in this one and stay dead, Black Widow is the one that surprised me the most. I kind of thought Natasha was save since she has a movie coming up. sighs Guess that means it IS a prequel film or there's like some sort of alternate clone that just so happens to look like Scarlett Johnannson running around.

Spoiler

I think the fact that she's getting a prequel movie is the reason why she DID get killed off "for real" (as it's likely that she could appear in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 if the plot does involve the search for Gamora). To me, the biggest issue with Infinity War's ending is that due to who disappeared thanks to Thanos's snap (especially Spider-Man), you know dang well that it would undone by the end of Endgame. As such, it would be a bigger shock to kill off the one character that you know will be appearing in one of the Phase 4 films in a manner that doesn't involve the Snap and felt more likely to be permanent (again, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3).

 

[Yojimbo]

Whoosh. Mind blown by that movie.

The opening: Damn, that's a terrible thing to happen. But explains Ronin.

That was a neat surprise that the end tag in Captain Marvel wasn't a part of Endgame recycled but a new scene. So off screen they briefed her then she flew off to look for Tony and Nebula and returned with them. I was pretty happy with the role she had in the movie overall and I actually liked her new look.

22 Days Later: Didn't expect the sudden head chop but it is what it is. Figured it was going too easy and of course he destroyed the stones.

5 years Later: Wow, the new present for the movies going forward will be in 2023.

The twist with Bruce and Hulk was dope. The selfie scene was hilarious.

Would never have guessed Fat Thor. But glad they had a way to explain what happened to the spared Asgardians, Korg and Mekt.

Okay, so seems like Stature could be a possibility for the third Ant-Man movie.

Time Heist: Scott being bummed about Back to the Future was hilarious.

Neat reveal that Pierce and his HYDRA band were the SHIELD teams that secured the staff and tried to get the Tesseract after Loki was defeated in 2012. Loved how they duplicated the TWS elevator fight but Steve used his wits to get them to hand off the Scepter. Also neat to learn the Ancient One was at the New York Sanctum during the invasion.

Loved that Frigga snuck up on Fat Thor and figured out the ruse pretty quickly then helped him get his act together. The Asgardians yelling 'get that rabbit!' was really good

Rhodes' assessment of Quill on Morag was hilarious then they knocked him out. lmao. I was a little confused why Thanos was talking about dispatching Gamora and Nebula to take the stone but in Vol. 1 it was Korath. So I guess in the original timeline that was when Gamora bailed then Thanos and Nebula chased but she gave them the slip?

Pleasant bonus to see 1970 SHIELD still at the Camp Lehigh base and Pym was with SHIELD for longer that we previously thought. The Jarvis cameo was freakin awesome. Finally, a TV specific character got to be in a movie.

Final Battle: Steve being worthy and wielding Mjolnir was an amazing reveal. That was a definite highlight for me.

The arrival of the sorcerers, returned Avengers, Guardians, Asgardians, Wakandans, and Ravagers was pure awesome.

Finale: Vol. 3 got a little more interesting if Thor's in the mix to appear.

I guess we know there's a new Captain America trilogy in the works and I suppose the streaming service series will bridge the gap between it and Endgame.

Other Thoughts: That underwater earthquake had to be hinting at Namor, right?

What's to come of 2012 Loki escaping or did Steve also undo that in the end?

They talked about how they saved Wasp's Avengers debut for Endgame, but it was kinda eh. I was expecting more. Same with Mantis and Drax to an extent. Or a pity they couldn't squeeze in a scene between Fury and Carol. But all that is a symptom of them having only so much space left to play with in the final part of the movie.

Did Tony's snap kill them all or did he put them back in 2014? Does the absence of 2014 Nebula and Gamora screw up the past? 2014 Gamora being in the present is fine I guess since it's 2023 and she died in 2018 so there's no Gamora at that point for a paradox...

I was surprised Clint would touch the Soul Stone. I guess it has different rules than the Power Stone, which vaporized most people who touched it. Or I wonder how did Steve return the Soul Stone? Just tossed it over the cliff I guess.

While they gave no other way to get the Soul Stone no matter what, the death that still shocked me was Black Widow. I wonder if they'll get criticized for that, the second woman to get killed so the stone would appear... but yeah it was a bummer she couldn't be there for the big female heroes moment in the final battle. And yeah, seems like her movie will be a prequel unless there's more to Bruce/Hulk's admission at the end where he tried to bring her back.

Also didn't like that Ross was there but the Harley cameo was cool. Dug the Ken Jeong and Yvette Nicole Brown cameo roles. Interesting choice Joe Russo took in portraying, I think, the first openly homosexual character in the MCU. And I think that was Jim Starlin in that scene, too. Fitting last cameo of Stan Lee.

The one omission that surprised me was there was nothing about Vision except I think when Wanda and Clint talked at the memorial. Which begs the question of what the WandaVision streaming service show is, another prequel or is it all in Wanda's mind?

Holy crap! The timeline just got even more confusing!

So...is Agents of SHIELD season six going to explain all this in a clear enough way? Because, awesome movie and a perfect conclusion and all, but I can't comprehend what happened with the timeline...

Yeah cuz Agents of SHIELD season 6 (and Cloak and Dagger season 2) are operating during the 5 year gap after the raid on the Garden. So hope those crews got the 411 on Endgame when they developed the seasons...

What they did to get Steve out of the picture was incredibly selfish, out of character and almost completely out of nowhere for him. It was very messed up for him to give up on the life he built in the future, especially since it leaves the Avengers without any real leadership now that Tony is gone as well.

Not to mention it undoes the life Peggy made for herself in the original timeline - moving on, then marrying and having children. Before that reveal of old Steve, I thought Thor was going to ask Steve to take over New Asgard for him -- but was I wrong. Went with Valkyrie. I guess it's a chicken or the egg paradox, did they always have that ending in mind for Steve or did Chris Evans signaling he wanted an out influence the ending.