IGPX: "The End...and the Beginning" Talkback (Spoilers)

[William C. Maune]

But, what's the point of the original ending without the original ending theme? It's like watching a music video with the sound turned off. Also, I assume that they would have gotten a new ending for the second season in Japan. I mean, Black Egg was still shown in this ending. I was staring at the back of their heads for a while before I realized that they were Black Egg. I really don't remember what Black Egg looked like at all. Does anybody?

Half is better than nothing. And in the case of IGPX, the Japanese music isn't the original music anyway.

 

[Duke]

Also, I assume that they would have gotten a new ending for the second season in Japan. I mean, Black Egg was still shown in this ending. I was staring at the back of their heads for a while before I realized that they were Black Egg. I really don't remember what Black Egg looked like at all. Does anybody?

Actually, the intro and ending stay the same during the 3 Season 2 episodes on Volume 4, so Black Egg's still there even in the uncut version (though the uncut ending didn't have sound effects added to the mechs).

 

[Demonic Raven]

I was staring at the back of their heads for a while before I realized that they were Black Egg. I really don't remember what Black Egg looked like at all. Does anybody?

I do, but I rewatched the Black Egg episode a few times before. I even remember the guys names (Ricardo Montazio, Glass Jones, Grant Mckain).

 

[Discloner]

What a lackluster end to the race. And Liz is officially "Worst. Character. Ever.".

Why did this show have to fall apart so badly? It could have been so much better.

Two seasons of a series and through 80% of it, it just wouldn't have been right to read a talkback without you gabbing on about the horrors of it's existance. Thanks for the memories.

Regardless, I disagree. I found Liz to be one of the most enjoyable characters throughout. But then again...I liked every episode that aired...so.

That being said, I loved this episode through and through. My blind ignorance and 'just sit back and be entertained' approach to watching the entire series kept me surprised to the revelation that Max was actually the captain of White Snow. Despite the fact that sure it was a tad corny, Takeshi's verbal revelation about the powers of team-work is what won them the IG-1 once again brings the series full circle. Watch episode 1, then this episode and you'll see just how much the team has grown over the span of two seasons.

I had no problems with Max being a Takeshi fan...nor do I quite comprehend the big whoopty-doo about Zanak and Judy being pawns. I simply don't see how it's a cop-out. Obviously Zanak and Judy are talented racers, Max's skills aren't enough to pull just anyone...but the big reveal was that she was essentially the puppet master of everything that had transpired, and I personally thought that was kinda a neat twist.

Lades and Lades, the paint has dried.

Great googly-moogly you're annoying! I'm trying to comprehend your comments regarding the show, knowing you haven't seen the episode. Please explain how that works? Are there any other nuggets of opinionated wisdom you'd like to sprinkle throughout the forums with your magical Anime ESP?

I must be easy when it comes to anime, cause I loved this show. Not sure what it was, but something about it made me want to watch every episode. I really wish there was a 3rd season.

I am not NEW to anime, but I am not a critic either (as in, I don't really know what to look for in a "good" anime and a "bad" anime.). but even what people thought of as "Boring" or "slow moving" I thought was interesting. I would have loved to see who would have come next to challenge the team, or see them lose one, or ...*etc*

but, unless a revival the likes of family guy happens, that probably wont happen. I like this episode a lot, and I am glad they did the whole liz/takashi too. been wanting that to happen for awhile, Hah!
I actually thought those lines he said were just right for him (except the "baby" at the end of his "I am never letting you go")

All in all, fantastic series, I will be getting all the DvD's so that I may bestow upon my friends this show.

Will you be my best friend? I agree whole heartedly with most, if not all of what you said. Namely I thought IGPX as a whole was an extremely refreshing show overall. It wasn't mature, nor cerebral. It wasn't kiddy, nor a 30 minute toy commercial. It was IGPX. I loved it's characters, it's action, it's story, its messages...it just clicked with me.

But, what's the point of the original ending without the original ending theme? It's like watching a music video with the sound turned off.

For the US it wasn't so much of an ending credit, or theme. It was just a final curtain call; a way to show most of the main players before they disappear forever (because you know CN won't repeat the series).

Also, I assume that they would have gotten a new ending for the second season in Japan. I mean, Black Egg was still shown in this ending. I was staring at the back of their heads for a while before I realized that they were Black Egg. I really don't remember what Black Egg looked like at all. Does anybody?

I do, but that's just because I recently rewatched the episode with them in it. The ending is slightly updated because White Snow's mechs pan across at the end; but I agree, for season 2 they should've replaced Black Egg with White Snow.

It was a good run for a great show, and despite the fact that it just couldn't catch on with the public, nor could it stay on the block that had it made; I'm atleast glad it was made. Thanks Sean and Jason; hopefully it's not Toonami's last baby.

 

[JohnCrichton]

Felt the love stuff was forced... that Michelle Rodriguez was an unexpectedly incredible voice actress, the final fight with the snow man was nothing short 18 different flavors of in-frelling-credible and I'm sorry to see the show go.... althought i can see why it's going.

I really don't see why Toonami felt a racing anime would do well... what that lacked such strong iconic identity when the know that's what's been doing well for their block... that and epic world saving action.

So, are we pretty much punked for a new season or is there a chance?

 

[William C. Maune]

So, are we pretty much punked for a new season or is there a chance?

It doesn't seem to have done all that well in Japan either and there hasn't been any indication that the DVDs have been selling spectacularly. Thus, there doesn't seem to be any money-generating avenue for continuing it.

Truthfully, I love the series and we got two good arcs out of it. However, while I'd like to see more, I'd be just as happy seeing the same crew put something new together.

 

[Kagetsu]

It doesn't seem to have done all that well in Japan either and there hasn't been any indication that the DVDs have been selling spectacularly. Thus, there doesn't seem to be any money-generating avenue for continuing it.

Truthfully, I love the series and we got two good arcs out of it. However, while I'd like to see more, I'd be just as happy seeing the same crew put something new together.

That's about what I figured. I held off commenting on these last two because I hate the idea that it's gone,,, but wow was it good.

If someone can hit another combination of great animation music and characters I'd be happy and impressed. Most Animes have an end and don't continue indefinitely, but the US doesn't seem to want to try "original" twice in a row when they can crank out unimaginative crud and still get ratings. I'm impressed they tried this once.

 

[Kinuta Ryu]

What a lackluster end to the race. And Liz is officially "Worst. Character. Ever.".

Why did this show have to fall apart so badly? It could have been so much better.

Interesting. I thought it was rather good.

Truthfully, I think Max is kinda cute (for a teenager, not how old she's supposed to be... and it's apperant she's like... 10-12... some time before puberty... I'm no pedophile)... smart too ('course we ALL know THAT)... I MAKES ME A MAXIE PLUSHIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3<3<3<3<3<3<3 ...or... better yet... ...*THINKS UP A NAME FOR A STORY AND PUTS MAX AND RYU TOGETHER IN IT*

 

[Kazamuki]

It doesn't seem to have done all that well in Japan either and there hasn't been any indication that the DVDs have been selling spectacularly. Thus, there doesn't seem to be any money-generating avenue for continuing it.

Truthfully, I love the series and we got two good arcs out of it. However, while I'd like to see more, I'd be just as happy seeing the same crew put something new together.

you seem to know a lot so I ask you, what DOES it take to get a show back? I mean, what has to be done on all parts for a show that has been cancelled or "ended" before its time to come back?

I also agree that I Would watch anything that this team put out, I already like the style.

 

[Discloner]

While the question wasn't really aimed at me...I do think I speak for everyone when I say that normally when a series dies, it stays dead. Family Guy was really the first of it's kind when it came to reviving dead series (aside from Star Trek) but to revive a show it takes an incredible amount of fan support to show the check signers that there is indeed money to be made by reviving it.

DVDs need to sell well. Other Merchandise needs to sell well. Interest has to be shown via the fans (Family Guy's ratings on Adult Swim post-death were a clear marker it had an audience), etc. etc.

Sadly I see next to none of this kind of support for IGPX. Ratings must have been awful for them to yank it 4 weeks before it ended; and there really is no merchandise for the series other than the PS2 game and it's DVDs, and even if those sold well I doubt it'd be enough. It may have it's fans, and people may love it...but it doesn't have nearly enough push behind it to justify it's continuation nor revival.

That's not to say it's impossible; but it's extremely improbable.

 

[William C. Maune]

you seem to know a lot so I ask you, what DOES it take to get a show back?

Discloner pretty much covered it already, I'll just a couple things. Basically, for a show to come back/continue, there has to be a way for those making to show to make money off of it. When Family Guy was originally on the air, DVDs were still very new and the television shows on DVD craze hadn't hit yet. Once the TV DVD market emerged, Family Guy not only sold a lot of discs, it was actually the #1 selling television show on DVD for quite awhile. Thus, the emergence of a market that didn't exist when Family Guy was cancelled helped bring it back. Most shows aren't cancelled if money can still be made off the show. Most shows that are cancelled aren't brought back because the circumstances that made the show unprofitable don't usually change.

In the case of IGPX, it is more likely that the team would create a new show than ever bring back IGPX. Considering the ratings, we are pretty lucky that we even got two seasons. The way Season 1 ended, a second season wasn't really at all necessary. However, Cartoon Network thankfully must have liked what they saw of the in production first season and went ahead and greenlighted season two. If they had waited to see the Season 1 ratings, Season 2 probably wouldn't have happened.

 

[Master Moron]

Half is better than nothing. And in the case of IGPX, the Japanese music isn't the original music anyway.

I'm not even sure how you would determine which music is the original, since bother versions were being made at the same time. But, for the ending theme, It's pretty clear that the ending animation was made to fit the Japanese theme.

Anyway, when I first heard that they were going to have different music for the Japanese and American versions I knew it was a sign of larger problems. Too many chefs spoil the stew, and when those chefs can't even agree on the ingredients the stew ends up tasting even worse. I know that for some movies that there's a director's cut available on DVD, but that's usually because footage is cut from the theatrical version to make the running time shorter. But, making two different versions because the two groups of people in charge of the show can't agree on things is kind of childish.

 

[Space Cadet]

I'm not even sure how you would determine which music is the original, since bother versions were being made at the same time. But, for the ending theme, It's pretty clear that the ending animation was made to fit the Japanese theme.

Anyway, when I first heard that they were going to have different music for the Japanese and American versions I knew it was a sign of larger problems. Too many chefs spoil the stew, and when those chefs can't even agree on the ingredients the stew ends up tasting even worse. I know that for some movies that there's a director's cut available on DVD, but that's usually because footage is cut from the theatrical version to make the running time shorter. But, making two different versions because the two groups of people in charge of the show can't agree on things is kind of childish.

The American music is the original one. The Japanese were the ones who wanted to change the music.

 

[Discloner]

Anyway, when I first heard that they were going to have different music for the Japanese and American versions I knew it was a sign of larger problems. Too many chefs spoil the stew, and when those chefs can't even agree on the ingredients the stew ends up tasting even worse. I know that for some movies that there's a director's cut available on DVD, but that's usually because footage is cut from the theatrical version to make the running time shorter. But, making two different versions because the two groups of people in charge of the show can't agree on things is kind of childish.

Eh. I think you and I both debated this point prior to the series beginning, but I don't consider the Toonami version using different music a sign of "Too many chefs spoiling the stew". Rather two different versions being created to cater to two different audiences.

Its just two culturally different tastes being used. Send some J-Pop to an average Joe American, and see if he responds well to it; The same could be said for Japanese audiences, in that perhaps they wouldn't be too keen or receptive of NinjaTune's library.

That being said...I don't even consider the music to be that big a deal in the greater scheme of things. Having seen a few episodes with noticable differences (the uncut dvds for instance) regarding music cues, not much is all that different between the two other then one FEELS more Toonami-ish and the latter feels more orchastral. So to follow your chef analogy, its akin to a chef making stew...then the customer sprinking pepper on it so it tastes right.

Now if there was any major differences STORY wise between the Japanese and American versions, then I'd be inclined to see your stance better; but as far as I've seen...none of that has happened.

 

[Demonic Raven]

I've always thought it was a culture thing rather than a disagreement as well. They could have decided to go one way or the other, but it not that important anyway.

With that said, the Toonami version music is a hell of a lot better than the Japanese version music. Kickass Ninja Tune beats the stock orchestra stuff they used.

 

[Ykwia]

Man, They should of released the game for the Xbox 360, The PS2 version is going to suck, But we'll just have to wait, But man, It should of been for the Xbox 360, It would of had amazing graphics and great online gameplay.

 

[Master Moron]

Eh. I think you and I both debated this point prior to the series beginning, but I don't consider the Toonami version using different music a sign of "Too many chefs spoiling the stew". Rather two different versions being created to cater to two different audiences.

But, that's not the way good art is created. I realize that every show on TV has some network input in it. But, good art tends to be more in tune with one person's vision as opposed to just a desire to cater to a particular audience.

 

[Animeforever'04]

Man, They should of released the game for the Xbox 360, The PS2 version is going to suck, But we'll just have to wait, But man, It should of been for the Xbox 360, It would of had amazing graphics and great online gameplay.

but japan isn't too keen with xbox360

 

[Discloner]

But, that's not the way good art is created. I realize that every show on TV has some network input in it. But, good art tends to be more in tune with one person's vision as opposed to just a desire to cater to a particular audience.

Good art is always subject as well. One person may like something, another may not. In this case Toonami and Cartoon Network for flipping the bill and were looking for something that looks like it was created by them for them. Chances are the Japanese audience simply wouldn't have been as receptive had they gotten the exact same version- and since it seems they already weren't to receptive of the show to begin with, it could've pushed it even further down the ranks.

I think you're always going to find changes in TV shows, ESPECIALLY when they jump seas to make them more appealing to viewers in their respective countries. Because of the money involved, there's always bound to be changes, but the only time I personally see it as a problem...is when it negatively impacts the translation; of which I think the music in IGPX really was much more of a positive point. I'm sure if there was extreme opposition to changing music, of if it was crapping on Hongro's vision, the US wouldn't have changed music...but again, they're really the creators of the show in the first place; or atleast the real fathers of it.

 

[thardus]

I think you're always going to find changes in TV shows, ESPECIALLY when they jump seas to make them more appealing to viewers in their respective countries. Because of the money involved, there's always bound to be changes, but the only time I personally see it as a problem...is when it negatively impacts the translation; of which I think the music in IGPX really was much more of a positive point. I'm sure if there was extreme opposition to changing music, of if it was crapping on Hongro's vision, the US wouldn't have changed music...but again, they're really the creators of the show in the first place; or atleast the real fathers of it.

I think Discloner also said it earlier that the music doesn't really change the episodes that much. Most of the time, the music in the Toonami versions are better. But that is of course at the expense of some cut footage. A lot of the things that were cut from the Toonami versions really had no need to be cut. And when the show is only 20 minutes long to bgein with, why make it shorter? If you want to talk about messing with Hongo's vision, the English version has done it, but not to an extreme extent. Some of the lines in the English version more accurately reflect that vision, while others are kinda thrown in there for us Americans (I go back to a small amount of the language was unnecessary, while some were necessary).

A lot of the cut footage that I am aware of was plot, like Amy meeting Luca (Episode 4) and Fantine getting Takeshi and Johnny into that restaurant, which wasn't explained in the English version (Episode 9). It was only a few seconds, but it matters, and I think you can agree from a purist's standpoint, anyway. But overall, the English version does a very good job. One thing that definitely outweighs the Japanese version is the choice of voice actors. It's nice to hear Major Hughes from FMA play Yamma in the Japanese version, but that's the only notable voice there. The English version has several great voice talents that really give IGPX something special. For the uncut footage, and slightly more pure script, I pick the Japanese version. For the voice acting, and music choices, I pick the English version. Fortunately, the uncut DVDs provide me with the Japanese version (and what the English versions would be if aired uncut) and the Complete Season 1 Box Set will provide me with the Toonami version.