Toonami Ratings

[Sketch]

Sym-Bionic Titan is free filler that just nearly got 1 million viewers at 2AM. If it sinks dramatically then they should take it off but for now it's free and doing well so the choice between that and buying another anime is obvious. If they had the money for another anime they'd get one. I'm also starting to believe they have to maintain a certain amount of "free to air" in order to keep Toonami going. Even ASA was apparently doing that with it's pocket of Big O season 2, GITS and Bebop. Now Toonami uses TC, SBT, E7 and Bebop x 2 for the same reason and it is sure to be saving them money while increasing ad-revenue over the previous year.

Basalisk is okay, I enjoyed it on IFC. They could get that when GXP ends rather than follow-up with Geminar or some other romantic comedy.

it's never as simple as Basalisk instead of another run of SBT or Godannar instead of another run of SBT. We all know Adult Swim will spend the least money possible whenever possible and buying another anime before they even know how SBT will do on a second run is jumping the gun a bit. Afterall, SBT was always reruns just new to Toonami so who is to say the second run on Toonami will do significantly worse? It seems people are just noticing the show based on what I've read around the internet and combined with a stronger lead, the show could actually do better this time around if it stays where it is. I don't imagine they'll hesitate to move it later when they get their GXP and/or ThunderCats replacement but it's fine where it is for now. We'll see how GXP does next to ThunderCats on DST, it might be able to swap with SBT if it does exceptionally well.

Also I thought the only time-cut to Young Justice was getting a short opening and speed up credits while other countries got a longer one and the actual credit roll? Are these moments cut from the actual episodes Mac?

 

[RabidInuyashaFan]

I'll just say I reject most of what you wrote. [line]2[/line] Let's start with DW's ratings. They beat Bleach in 18-24 & 18-34 including males. You just had to do the math when they posted the gains in the one weekly report to see that. That means it was likely the strongest draw amongst adult viewers over the summer. Any suggestion that [as] was too poor to renew it for a 2nd run is senseless. Coming off that kind of strength they would have no problem finding the sponsors willing to pay enough for the spots to cover that cost. Furthermore, once that success is achieved it's easier to sell sponsorship for a show of a similar nature. So even if FUNI was asking too much, [as] just had to ask what do you have like it & they still would have been able to sell the sponsorship for that. [line]2[/line] You're making a claim that DeMarco has outspent the budget for 2012-2013. Yet you didn't even bother to compare the volume of ep he's purchased vs what ASA purchased for 2011-2012. ASA got Brotherhood, Kekkaishi, & Durarara. Do really believe the cost of DW, Sins, S7, E7, GXP, & Soul Eater exceeds the cost for those 3 shows? You do realize that with the exception of DW, all 3 of them are more recent productions than what DeMarco's gotten. [line]2[/line] How about Bleach? Do you think the cost of premiere's for a show that can't get past 1.5m any more is the same for a show that drew over 1.7m in Fall of 2011? How about Naruto? They are paying per ep, which means they can easily pay for that cost knowing what sponsors are willing to pay for the slot now. VIZ is not likely to increase that cost because they are more interested in Naruto becoming the new lead of TOONAMI than seeking any short term gain. Needless to say, Naruto is easily paying for itself & then some. [line]2[/line] All things considered then, I think SBT's getting a 2nd run just to maintain the status quo of the slot & I refer to the GXP reference in the Turner report to support that. Network press reports serve one purpose: attract new sponsors to a space. GXP would not have been included if Turner didn't feel the space had risen considerably in value. The yr over gains have been so profound this qtr for 3-6a that no one knows what to expect going forward. All they can probably agree on is that the price sponsors will be paying will be going up significantly & naturally FUNI, VIZ, & other vendors are going to be wanting more as well. With no one being able to agree on price right now, maintaining the status quo is the right move. [line]2[/line] All this is good news for TOONAMI because eventually it will all shake out & TOONAMI will see a major jump in it's general budget. Naruto will remain a ST deal until Naruto S is freed up for [as] to pursue.

 

[ToonsLover]

I could totally see Secret Saturdays airing alongside ThunderCats, I think it'd definitely be a great fit.

Brave and the Bold and Generator Rec seem a bit too comedy oriented to air beside the other shows IMO

 

[Sketch]

I think there may be a misunderstanding or two going on here.

Nobody suggested AS was too poor to renew Deadman Wonderland for a 2nd run but if they couldn't last year they surely can now. They have expressed that it is more costly to re-air their recent pick-ups than it is to keep Cowboy Bebop and Fullmetal on. It may also be the case that it was cheaper to keep InuYasha around and even get new tapes than it was to give other shows a 2nd run. They have indicated they prefer not to spend the money on a 2nd run of a recently completed anime that did well when they could instead get something else that hasn't aired yet. Regardless, Deadman would be a welcome return for many viewers and it could possibly match or surpass what it did at 12:30 airing later in the block now. It's kind of a shame that Deadman didn't get the benefit of being on Toonami after it found its' footing.

Nobody is saying they couldn't have dipped back into the TV-MA-V FUNimation titles to follow Deadman Wonderland. They simply didn't do that. Basalisk and Samurai 7 probably cost a similar amount of money.


Nor am I claiming they outspent the budget for 2012-2013. I'm saying they're conserving their budget by airing Sym-Bionic Titan, ThunderCats and apparently "basically free" Eureka 7 and the double dose of Cowboy Bebop. Making nearly half of Toonami "basically free" right now so they can buy new shows to replace the current network premieres. They said they have a show lined uup for replacing GXP. Regardless of them mentioning GXP in the PR, I don't see them premiereing another show at 3AM unless it doesn't do well enough earlier in the block. That PR doesn't exaclty mention the time in which GXP gained over last year. If they actually do premiere GXP's replacement at 3AM, you are welcome to an "I told you so".


They didn't get Kekkaishi in 2011 and it was likely a single purchase which was not renewed, Viz contracts are not usually for just 26 episodes when a series is longer than 26 episodes. FMAB showed up in two chunks, one in 2010 and the other in 2011 but it may have been purchased entirely in 2010. The show that premiered in 2011 was Durarara, and that was purchased mid-2011. Bleach's renewal point was also in 2010 since that was the last time it came back from a long hiatus (11/21/09 until 08/28/10). It didn't take another premiere break until this past December. Given that Bleach's renewal point was likely post-Toonami revival and possibly very recent. That's a really round about way of saying the 2010 budget was spent on Kekkaishi, part or all of FMAB and renewing Bleach so the bulk of that was on the 2010 budget. They spent big in 2010 so in 2011 they only got Durarara and maybe paid for part of FMAB unless Bleach's renewal had become a yearly occurance by then.


I don't think I have to remind you that Adult Swim showed very little faith or interest in ASA in 2011 and the block only had Bleach for premieres by 2012. Toonami has certainly changed the value of action acquisitions to Adult Swim and they're spending much more on the packaging and promotion of Toonami than they likely ever have for ASA. That CGI animation does not come cheap. The squeeze a lot of use out of it but the intial cost is nothing to scoff at. They didn't get that new game room animation until Disney and Microsoft granted them the funds in exchange for the Wreck-It Ralph game and Halo 4 reviews. From what they've said they could have gotten a cheap show for what it cost to do the CGI animation they've had since May 26th.


I think ASA spent more in 2010 than Toonami did in 2012 but the money spent on Toonami in 2012 is likely greater than what was spent on ASA in 2011, especially if you factor in Naruto which required assistance from the big wigs.


I don't think their contracts work how you believe they do. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I don't think they get to adjust their price on an episode to episode basis. They've also indicated that good ratings from Toonami shows now translates to advertisers paying more next year as opposed to paying more now.


You probably have a point about the expectations for the 3AM-6AM time frame causing price disagreements for future acquisitions. The exceptions for the block as a whole are also pretty up in the air right now. That is likely to be a factor in the decision to run Sym-Bionic Titan again but I very much believe it is not the only reason and both the conservation of the budget (so they maintain 2.5 hours of premieres) and the possible neccessity of keeping several hours of Toonami "basically free" are also important factors in that decision. When has ASA ever had 2.5 hours of premieres on Saturday night much less 3 hours?

 

[RabidInuyashaFan]

I understand your caution but the game has really changed. The gains since Dec 8th, 2012: Bleach +400k, Naruto +300k, Soul Eat +350k, TCats +350k, SBT +350k, E7 +290k, GXP +210k, Brot +170k, Bebop*2 +145k, IY+160k. Dec 8th, was vs the opening of the Hobbit. Now that is not the avg mind you simply the difference of what TOONAMI can do vs a mega BO opening & an avg Sat BO winner for the yr. It's reasonable for [as] to now tell sponsors the Dec 8th ratings can be considered the floor for the block for the next qtr & that's why we're raising the prices. Naturally they'll mention something about the competition for the spots as well. [line]2[/line] I also understand what you are saying about the animation for the TOONAMI bumps but there is an end game there. That is probably considered more of an investment than simply a cost. It's not clear yet at what the ratings mark is but when it's reach some of the sponsors like Subway, Wendy's Taco Bell will become enthusiastic about a national marketing campaign involving the TOONAMI brand itself. The pay off from that will make the investment look miniscule. Why TOONAMI vs say anything else [as] you might ask? Because of the mass success of BBT both on TBS & in syndication. There is a nationwide program there that is tailor made for a TOONAMI campaign involving fast food restaurants. [line]2[/line] So what's the biggest reason that for the bump in #'s since Dec? TOONAMI has effectively two leads now in Bleach & Naruto. That combined fan base creates a strong lead for the next show. If damage occurs to Bleach, Naruto buffers some of it. The other reason is that the GXP viewers did not abandon the show when it moved to 3a. That could very well be worth another 100k to every slot in between. It's similar to when IY appears at 5a it seems to lift Bebop or whatever else is airing at 4a as well. This is typical when later slots beat earlier ones.

 

[Lifevirus]

New ratings are in!

Bleach - 1,346,000
Naruto - 1,289,000
Soul Eater - 1,163,000
Thundercats - 929,000
Symbionic Titan - 787,000
Eureka 7 - 807,000
Tenchi Muyo GXP - 738,000
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood - 746,000
Cowboy Bebop (4am) - 681,000
Cowboy Bebop (4:30) - 662,000
Inyuasha (5am) - 670,000
Inyuasha (5:30) - 641,000

At this point, if i'm wrong someone else will probably correct me but at least it's not a 3am dump this time so woot!

Thoughts: Almost got another quad. Wasn't expecting it to happen but got really close. Titan lost a lot though after TC which isn't so hot (234k loss.) Beyond that it kind of hopped around with gains and losses across the night post from Titan onward. Interesting week this was.

Edit: Spreadsheet is updated! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As2n841m5KUUdGVVYS15dHlkai1Md3JGeDFaY1o3Qnc&usp=sharing

 

[Light Lucario]

Those are some really nice ratings for the first two hours. Bleach and Naruto getting over the million mark is typical, but even with last week's ratings, I wasn't expecting Soul Eater to do that well too. That's pretty cool. There's a bit of a drop with Thundercats, but it still did really solid. That's a bigger drop for Sym-Bionic Titan and I'm surprised it picked up a bit again for Eureka 7. It looks like a nice turnout for the block again.

 

[The Man in Black]

I feel like Soul Eater might be responsible for general renewed interest in the block.

 

[Lifevirus]

I feel like Soul Eater might be responsible for general renewed interest in the block.

That or Soul Eater pre-existing fan base gave a overall boost to the early part of the line up and not so much interest in the entire block.

Either way you look at it, it's getting the ratings. I just wish they would have left Thundercats at 1am and not have crammed all the shonen up front, but that's a personal miff at the block. It's getting over a million so I really can't say much beyond that. Fans will be fan!

 

[Dan's Revenge]

New ratings are in!

Bleach - 1,346,000
Naruto - 1,289,000
Soul Eater - 1,163,000
Thundercats - 929,000
Symbionic Titan - 787,000
Eureka 7 - 807,000
Tenchi Muyo GXP - 738,000
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood - 746,000
Cowboy Bebop (4am) - 681,000
Cowboy Bebop (4:30) - 662,000
Inyuasha (5am) - 670,000
Inyuasha (5:30) - 641,000

E7 had 807K viewers? Miracles do happen (no intent at insult to E7) -- SE again in the millions, have to like that.

Of 147 programs in the span given... Toonami's Top 4 fall at...

#47 for Bleach
#54 for Naruto
#74 for Soul Eater
#120 for Thundercats

Bleach makes the top 50 again. Only 4 Sunday shows beat it through [as] altogether 10:30pm-12:30am. 5 Thursday shows ahead of it. Children's Hospital not one of them, granted, higher rating than Bleach. (Bleach's 0.9 w/ 1,346k viewers to CH's 1.1 w/ 1,331k viewers) Still, though, it's nice to see.

Spreadsheet is updated! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As2n841m5KUUdGVVYS15dHlkai1Md3JGeDFaY1o3Qnc&usp=sharing

Very nice stat work, keep it up! -- I got lost a bit as the link took me to the original page, but then I noticed your tab title trend, and found the current one under "Duel Reaping"

 

[Sketch]

Nice ratings.

Bleach and Naruto both beat Black Dynamite and shocker Bleach beat The Boondocks. If that keeps happening then expansion should be on the table by Summer.

Looks like people realized Sym-Bionic Titan started over but I wouldn't count it out just yet.

I know it's not that important but Eureka 7 had a couple of good weeks and it'll be a shame if this one week off the block hurts that.

 

[RabidInuyashaFan]

TOONAMI shines while [as] comedy dulls

https://www.toonzone.net/forums/adult-swim-toonami-forum/295069-toonami-ratings-2.html#post4094591 & Adult Swim Weekly Ratings Scorecard | TV Media Insights – TVMI – TV Ratings – Network TV Show Reviews Excellent! This was a Feb sweeps month & those that get far more attention from advertisers than the other 8 months because Nielsen's sample size goes from under 15k covering mostly the top 50 markets, to over 2m covering well over 100 markets. If someone didn't tell you the #'s but told you simply that Bleach & Naruto beat Black Dynamite that's all you would need to know TOONAMI kicked ass! How bad of a fit is Black Dynamite on Sat nights? Soul Eater needed just 6% more viewers to beat it. [line]2[/line] After that the drops are severe for the CN shows: Nearly 21% for TCats, & 16% for SBT. E7 is somewhat a surprise because the George & Rei segment which lifted the show is over now. It was a lame ep with virtually no action so it's prospects aren't good two weeks from now. Then again the hiatus might lead to short memories of the lame ep. Hopefully [as] has simply pushed back that ep rather than pre-empt it for DST. GXP held more than 90% of the E7 crowd which is good, but it was kind of disspointing with guest stars from the old Tenchi show. Still, like E7 there was virtually no action. Brot was a surprise. It was a drama rich ep centering on the late General's death & the surprise arrest for the murder, but it too was action weak. The rest went as expected when Brot delivers nearly 750k. [line]2[/line] Keep in mind that these are ratings avg's & that doesn't tell the whole story. Consider TCats Forever Bag ep. Odds are it's 1st 1/2 which carries from SE's lead was much greater than it's 2nd. That then leads to a poor 1st 1/2 for SBT. E7 beating it then is probably a result of the last wk's helter-skelter ep of Rei's revenge & dramatic death & SBT's 2nd 1/2 picking up. That Rei ep no doubt heightened expectations among new viewers to the show for this week. Unfortunately they were let down. E7's 1st 1/2 surely beat it's 2nd which led to a weak 1st 1/2 for GXP. I imagine some internet buzz at the sight of the well known Tenchi Muyo chars showing up greatly lifted the 2nd half. That probably overshadowed what was otherwise a lame ep action & perv wise. That gave Brot a solid lead for it's 1st half & so on. [line]2[/line] Sun 9p was a disaster as it's a PT slot & advertisers pay much more for it than LN or LLN. Cleve really lift the night at 10:30p, but look at the drops after FG: RC -26%, SJ -20%, Metal -14%, Frisky -5%, Titan -6%. The Cleve encore only lifted it 14%, & the FG*2 encore only added another 5%. Sure that beats TOONAMI for those slots but there's a big difference between Sat & Sun LLN viewers. Put another way the 850k RC fig's to have done at 3a is comparable to GXP's 738k on Sat. After that it's pretty clear Brot, Bebop*2, & IY*2 outperformed the rest of the Sun. [line]2[/line] Again from an advertiser's pov, TOONAMI shined at a time [as] dulled for the end of Feb sweeps. The [as] weeknight avg was 11:30-12:30a 0.9 18-49, 2m tvs & 12:30-1:30a 0.6 & 1.3m tvs. Fig 127k tv's for each 0.1 18-49. For the TOONAMI expansionist enthusiasts, SNL was down to 2.8 from last yr's 3.3 for that weekend, but comedy was down substantially while TOONAMI was up big. Bleach alone was up +500k vs 2012.

 

[Ishtar]

Ratings are in!


Bleach - Ratings Share: 0.8 Total Viewers: 1,036,000
Naruto - Ratings Share: 0.8 Total Viewers: 1,001,000
Soul Eater - Ratings Share: 0.7 Total Viewers: 898,000
Thundercats - Ratings Share: 0.7 Total Viewers: 756,000
Tenchi Muyo GXP - Ratings Share: 0.5 Total Viewers: 576,000
Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherood - Ratings Share: 0.5 Total Viewers: 525,000
Cowboy Bebop - Ratings Share: 0.4 Total Viewers: 504,000
Cowboy Bebop - Ratings Share: 0.4 Total Viewers: 484,000
Inuyasha - Ratings Share: 0.4 Total Viewers: 449,000
Inuyasha - Ratings Share: 0.4 Total Viewers: 441,000

That's quite a drop between Naruto and Soul Eater. The later half of the block is also quite down compared to recent weeks. Daylight Savings could have been a factor, especially with the lack of Sym-Bionic Titan and Eureka 7. I also blame Justin Timberlake hosting SNL that night.

 

[Gold Guy]

Ouch, Soul Eater! Thats quite the drop from last week.

 

[Cartoon X]

Ouch, Soul Eater! Thats quite the drop from last week.

Not really. Bleach and Naruto were down about 250,000 viewers from the last week and that indicates there were simply a goup of viewers that weren't watching that week. The drop off between Naruto and Soul Eater is not any greater than it was last week.

 

[RabidInuyashaFan]

Ratings are in! Bn 1131, BL 1036, Nar 1001, SE 898, TC 756-624, GXP 576, Bro 525, CB*2 494, IY*2 445 ... blame Justin Timberlake hosting SNL that night.

SNL was great with a 3.7 18-49 up nearly a full pt vs weeks prior. OZ pushed Sat's BO to nearly $54m (+35% vs LW), & we don't know yet if ESPN surprised. USA's AM Raw was reported for 3a with 567k & 0.25 18-49, so at least GXP beat that. I'm guessing the 624k is the last rating before the clock rolled forward to 3a. Assuming a TC lead of 624k then, an 8% drop for GXP is not too bad & the rest falls into place. It underscores again the importance to beef up 2a with something more than CN shows if they want to lift the rest of the block. At least the BO shouldn't be much of a threat this Sat. [line]2[/line] CN Sat: GL nearly tied YJ w 1.8-9m & 0.66 18-49. That easily bested all other prem's on the night in 18-49 but was noticeably down from LW due to the permanent exit of SW:CW. Vortexx did well: TP 1.06m, JLU 1.24m, & DBZ 1.25m. JLU&DBZ avg'd 0.37 18-49 easily beating Slam. [line]2[/line] The tv's don't matter nearly as much as the 18-49 on Sun nights, & FG*2 did ok w 1.05. LS did ok w 0.8. Those might even be considered good with the competition they faced (encores of WD, Vikings). The rest of Sun LN was poor. Nothing else made the top 100 25-54 which means it failed to reach a 0.4-0.5 range. Obs-Clev: 762, 893, 1178, 1584. FG*2 2224, LS-Titan: 1600, 1181, 1013, 822, 718, 688. Clev encore: 777, FG*2 2a encore 1020. [line]2[/line]Nothing lifts LLN like FG but that would upset too many TOONAMI fans. Still DeMarco should be looking at something strong in 18-49 to lift the night at 2a. The 2nd runs of TC+SBT are going to hurt more than help there. While these shows don't cost them any more to keep airing, they have other shows that fit that bill as well. I doubt they've given up FLCL, Big O S2, & GitS. I'm certain IY, FLCL, GitS can easily beat TC & SBT in 18-49 in either of those slots.

 

[Lifevirus]

Ouch. Low start and standard drops for the night makes this look rather bad but given the older days. It's rather standard if a bit lower than usual. Thanks Isthar for the ratings this week. Wondered when those suckers would get posted.

Nothing lifts LLN like FG but that would upset too many TOONAMI fans. Still DeMarco should be looking at something strong in 18-49 to lift the night at 2a. The 2nd runs of TC+SBT are going to hurt more than help there. While these shows don't cost them any more to keep airing, they have other shows that fit that bill as well. I doubt they've given up FLCL, Big O S2, & GitS. I'm certain IY, FLCL, GitS can easily beat TC & SBT in 18-49 in either of those slots.

I would agree they need newer show to fill the 2am block but i'll bet they blew their entire budget on One Piece (a rather dumb move personally) and need the insanely cheap stuff to maintain their "budget" that by the Momocon video is well under 500k. They won't be leaving any time soon though I wish TC wouldn't rerun given the confirmed death of it.

Spreadsheet will be up soon. Need to get the data inserted and i'll post the link up.

 

[El-Hazard]

Ouch.

Kinda a limp week, but I think we'll be alright, at least the week of the 24th if Eva doesn't do that well.
Maybe.

 

[Light Lucario]

Yeah, not the best results this week. Bleach and Naruto did fine as usual, but both Soul Eater and Thundercats did weaker than they usually have. The ratings aren't too bad, but just a bit weaker than normal.

 

[RockmanDash]

Day Light savings definitely played a big part of the drop here. Most people who were expecting Sym Bionic/Eureka were in front of well..Tenchi GXP.

I don't think Soul Eater had that bad of a drop since its ratings depend on the audience that sticks with Bleach/Naruto(notice the very low million this time).