"Black Panther: Wakanda Forever" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

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Yojimbo

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Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Release Date:
November 11, 2022 (November 10 advance screenings)
Studio: Walt Disney Pictures, Marvel Studios
Runtime: 161 minutes
MPAA Rating: PG -13 (for for sequences of strong violence, action and some language)
Director: Ryan Coogler
Screenwriters: Ryan Coogler and Joe Robert Cole
Starring: Letitia Wright, Danai Gurira, Lupita Nyong'o, Angela Bassett, Tenoch Huerta, Martin Freeman, Winston Duke, Florence Kasumba, Michaela Coel, Dominique Thorne, Mabel Cadena, Alex Livinalli, Richard Schiff, Lake Bell

Plot Summary: Queen Ramonda, Shuri, M'Baku, Okoye and the Dora Milaje fight to protect their nation from intervening world powers in the wake of King T'Challa's death. As the Wakandans strive to embrace their next chapter, the heroes must band together with Nakia and Everett Ross to forge a new path for their beloved kingdom.

Discuss anything and everything about Black Panther: Wakanda Forever right here!

Be warned: there will be spoiler discussion in this thread! If you don't want any of the many Black Panther: Wakanda Forever surprises ruined, avoid this thread until you've seen the movie!

Related Discussion:

-What If...? Season OneTalkback (Spoilers)
-The Falcon and The Winter Soldier Talkback (Spoilers)
-Avengers Endgame Talkback (Spoilers)
-Avengers: Infinity War Talkback (Spoilers)
-Black Panther Talkback (Spoilers)
-Captain America: Civil War Talkback (Spoilers)
-Marvel Cinematic Universe News & Discussion (Spoilers)
-Black Panther: Wakanda Forever News & Discussion (Spoilers)

What did you think about Black Panther: Wakanda Forever?
 
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This really didn't do it for me, Lietiti Wright is just not good for the leading role in this movie.
Plus, many plot holes and aimless monologues with the character just standing there that just go on and on the overall theme gets lost in it. I hated how they killed off Queen Romanda in the second act, we had that the mother die in Thor 2 and it didn't even save the movie

Probably going to be much lower on my list than other Marvel movies.
 
What plot holes? Which aimless monologues?

I think Wright did a good job making the franchise her own. It was smart to save Nakia for later in the film after the Queen’s death.


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ou know even Iron Man and The Avengers didn't have the beloved instant cinematic classic slam out of the gate status the first Black Panther movie had. Sure there were/are some detractors who feel the film is massively overrated but... considering the box office and award buzz (one of only two super hero movies ever to be nominated for an academy award... and Joker is hard to even classify as a super hero movie so...) that didn't really matter. Plus unlike Iron Man or Avengers, this was made and came out in an era where Ike Perlmutter (old racist former d-hole owner of Marvel who BTW didn't think a Black Panther movie could make money or be good... yeah still have no idea how he was in charge of the company for so long) was no longer in charge of Marvel so there wasn't any chance of studio notes forcing Ryan Coogler to add or do things he wouldn't want to do for a follow up which yeah unlike Doctor Strange or Captain Marvel pretty clear Coogler was the right choice for this project off the bat so he was a natural for a follow up. As was the entire cast that was determined to make this just as solid a hit as the last movie but... then tragedy struck. I'm not going to get into all the details as it's been ground covered for over two years but yeah the tragic passing of Chadwick Boseman kind of threw the plans of a BP sequel for a spin. Honestly there hasn't been the lost of a beloved main actor for a super hero franchise still playing the main super hero (Brandon Lee and Heath Ledger technically both passed BEFORE the movies they were in hit and in Lee's case The Crow wasn't really in the same major super hero franchise level and in Ledger's case he wasn't playing the main hero) so it did raise a lot of questions of what to do next. Would T'Challa be recast? Would they use digital technology to bring the former king to glory? Would someone else take on the mantle? Well after a lot of reshuffling and talks the answer was finally given; Boseman would obviously still have a presence in this movie but it would deal with events that happened after T'Challa's passing and the focus would be put outside him on others in Wakanda. Which you know in most other MCU movies... would be quite frankly a terrible idea because most of those casts wouldn't of been able to handle the load. You could NOT have done an Iron Man movie without Robert Downy Jr or Thor without Chris Hemsworth etc but Black Panther actually is different. Boseman did have T'Challa as a more reserved and dignified kind of presence thus not having a bombastic personality that demanded all your attention plus due to being introduced in Captain America Civil War did allow the first BP movie to really showcase Wakanda and more of it's world and allow for stories to be told even without it's main anchor. But is this one of those great stories or did Coogler wind up fumbling the mark because you still needed someone like Boseman to ground the story?

No because this movie is really solid and does have a good emotional core and solid message... I don't know if it fully lives up to the first movie even though it does have a better ending battle if the theme really knocks it out of the park as much as the last movie does, though the theme is still really strong and certainly works for what they are trying to do.

And honestly I do appreciate how due to having a new distinct character to focus on it does offer a new view and connection the theme previously explored with the Black Panther in the MCU; the idea of vengeance and bloodlust consuming oneself and how dangerous that mind set is and how easily it can corrupt your soul and view point. Like in Civil War T'Challa was out for blood against Bucky and only stopped when realizing how his thirst for revenge was manipulated by someone else who in turn only wanted revenge because of what happened to him. So it made sense that though he was able to see how vengeance corrupted Erik in Black Panther and turned him on that path and how his own people had issues, why he had learned his lesson and wouldn't fall prey to that again. But it is a hard lesson to stick to thus why even when confronting Klaw for the first time T'Challa had a moment of doubt, and also why it totally makes sense it's a big theme here with Shuri. Again though it's different because Shuri is much different then T'Challa who had that calm and collective regal composure and could more easily role with the punches. Shuri's though technically smarter obviously doesn't have the same life experience or attitude and is more easily broken by such hardships, thus why it took more then a year for her to get over her brother, and why she could be pushed more easily into anger which yeah isn't her normal view point as someone who wants to use advance technology and tools for the betterment and improvement of others but yeah that is something that does fuel her. And I really like how that's a parallel with Namor whom we here his story about not only losing his mother but also his anger first viewing the surface world and... I guess the lesson may not be as powerful as in the first Black Panther since when Erik is just talking about how generally racist people are you don't need a flashback to show that but you still get how sickened he would be seeing slavery and people abusing others and want nothing to do with humanity at all and yeah now feeling his people more directly threatened would start making more extreme counter measures. I do like the idea of him and Shuri talking and him having lived longer and likely seen or heard more of humanity having much larger issues in trust thus offering the deal though yeah only engaging in more direct attack when one of the Takolan people are taken out. And the idea that Shuri couldn't save this one which led to the attack which led to Ramonda's death (which honestly more on her later but I do feel her death though not as emotional as Yondu in Guardians 2 was much better handled and you got a much better sense of her character then in say Thor 2... man what's with Marvel sequels and offing parents?) and that fueling her own anger I really liked. And yeah kind of obvious they weren't going to have her go down a super dark path but I do like that again she is different then T'Challa so there is more of a likely chance and I especially appreciate her seeing Erik in her Herb flashback space as she was seeking out the power of the Black Panther for the same reason he did in a sense; a great loss fueling her anger and him in a sense stoking the flames pointing out "you aren't like your dad who would of just killed Riri and T'Challa was too noble and what did that get him" and her own sense of retribution and justice even fueling her in that last fight with Namor. And yeah she ultimately realizes "letting yourself be consumed by vengeance would just lead to endless war and even more deaths" (which BTW I am so glad is phrased that way not in just a lame "oh why can't we all get along" sort of way but a "yeah doing this will just result in more losses in an endless cycle") and is finally able to more properly grief and get over the loss suffered but it is a struggle and yeah is well handled but differently then what came before. I also really like that Namor's rationale in accepting the deal wasn't just in wanting to stop the death but rather "The Black Panther and Wakanda are powerful resources that are in a sense around our level... but they are known to everyone in the surface world and are on constant attack for that. And sooner or later they are going to do something against Wakanda that will ahve them come to us for assistance and then we can team up and take them all out" which is actually an interesting and unique way for a "villain" to in a weird way if not come out on top but end things here; have one plan foiled but another one ready to work.

And you know I have to say I do really like how Namor was handled here. Okay he's no Killmonger who had a lot more swagger and interesting speeches and view points but it's clear the guy isn't just some one note jerk or anything and you do get where he's coming from. Like I'm no Namor expert since I think I first really saw this character properly in one episode of the 2000's Fantastic Four series but I do know he technically actually beat Aquaman as the original Marvel's take on a king of atlantis esque character but the main difference is that Namor is much more of an anti hero kind of character who would actually wage war with humans if they threaten his kingdom and isn't someone most of the heroes are on friendly terms with. And I do actually like the idea that this take on Takolan are people who purposely want really nothing to do with humanity thus why they haven't been seen or mentioned before (which is better then a lot of these civilizations in phase 4 who at least you'd think would show up or do something if the entire world was in danger but I could see why these guys wouldn't want to bother) and yeah only started being a threat when other forces came close to finding out about them. Admittedly their underwater city doesn't have the grandeur or splendor of Atlantis in the Aquaman movie but that was meant to be super colorful and kind of goofy while you can tell the more natural and more sort of realistic vibe this place gives. Granted some of the comedy doesn't work with him like the whole "oh you can't come underwater to see my kingdom that would crush your bones into powder... but you can take this suit which we happen to have a few of" seems like it should be a funny scene but it just wasn't delivered well as so far I don't think Namor really works in a comedic setting but thankfully they didn't really use him like that too much so most of that works. And though we get mention of him being the first mutant (though I'm not sure if it counts due to his power seemingly coming from his mom having the herb in her when she was pregnant with him but I guess him being so able to easily "breath" on land and fly are considered more mutant powers) and being potentially 'strong as the hulk" (though if he was shouldn't he have KILLED M'Baku in one punch not just... knocked him away and he wasn't really hurt much later anyway? Just saying) I like first just building him and the others up as this mysterious force especially with their hypnotizing powers (I at least liked how others realized it was a thing though... you'd think that'd be used more then like a couple of times especially when not everyone is going to have ear pieces on to not be hit by that sound) and then him just appearing in front of Ramonda and Shuri and making his demands. And having that more humanziing moment where you actually do see his origin and see his desire based around what he feels would best protect his people. And I will say one thing this one actually does have over the first movie is the fact that due to now most people knowing about how powerful Vibranium is and wanting it for their own ideals the danger of general man taking it and using it and thus currently being more the aggressors that goes beyond just either general prejudice or ignorance from our world but rather "yeah this is how our world would act but this is how the MCU world acts knowing that." And honestly it works using Valentia in that role. I heard the rumors about her wanting a war with Wakanda and though "what is that the plot of Thunderbolts" and maybe it will be elaborated more there but I like how this sows the seeds for it. Since yeah if the Wakandas aren't telling about the Talokoans and no one really knows about the other power other then it uses Vibranium tech there would be that ideal and that What If episode did show how easy it would be to push the two sides into warring with one another so like how that was set up while making in a sense Namor's point and stance ring more true. I admit his two other advisors weren't really anything. Allurtura just had that rivalry with Okoye which I guess gave their big battle at the end a bit of weight but... still didn't really give him a character and I never even got what Namora's deal was other then her being more on the wanting to take out humanity angle but Namor himself as a threat and foe was good. I especially liked showing him fly around and dodge all those ships lasers and then going underwater and using those water bombs against Ramonda and Shuri and Riri working together to figure out a way to weaken him and that leading to Shuri and his big battle as I dig the idea of building a ship to de power him to make this big fight not be one sided and Shuri ultimately being able to get up over her anger and use that explosion trick to dry him out before forcing that surrender and again him using it as another ploy. I don't know if I could see him being like another big major threat but I do like the idea of him sort of potentially forcing Wakanda to come work with him and that being a threat down the line.

And I do like how this movie did give a lot for most of the other characters something to do. I appreciate Ramonda being the Queen Mother and giving that speech to the UN about Wakanda still being a threat and having the Dora Milage bring in all of those soldiers just to prove "yeah we aren't totally helpless without BP" and having a lot of fire and vigor in her. I admit I wasn't sold on how this would an academy award potentially acting bit from Angela Bassett until you got to that monologue of her sort of breaking down realizing Shuri was captured and firing Okoye as head after all that happened bringing up her failures from the previous movie and how she had her back but yeah this is a step too far. I admit thinking more about it especially since her last act was helping the human they brought to their kingdom and how the funeral was handled did feel very Thor The Dark Worldish but... Ramonda had much more a presence in her first movie and this movie then Frigga did in either as Frigga's best role was in Endgame so... unless for some reason Ramonda shows up for like Secret Wars his is a really good note for her character to go out on especially for how it pushes Shuri. I also really appreciate how much more human they were able to make Okoye who did have moments in the first movie and Infinity War for some good barbs and looks but her being self concious about her make up and "I said five minutes I gave you six" and using that spear to spring up the car and getting Shuri's AI to give her back control of the car and even breaking down losing Shuri and talking to Nakia later did make her stand much more out as a character. I get more why there's talk of giving her a spinoff especially now with her midnight Sons armor despite her hatred of that it is a pretty spiffy look. I admit I do feel with all the talk before about Anika they didn't really do much with the character. They had her like the weapons Shuri made for her and pop up a couple of times in some battle and then just quickly reveal at the end that her and Okoye were now an item which... did feel odd. Seriously I appreciate marvel is having more characters show their LGBTQ+ colors but this is 3 movies in a row with kind of more just quick mentions of them and not really any focus. Also wasn't Anika supposed to be in a relationship with like one of the Talkolans or something but that didn't happen so yeah weird but eh if they do something more with Okoye maybe they can expand on that relationship. I do like the reveal of Nakia though trying to make a simple life for herself. I admit I'm not a fan of "oh man let's have so many conversations talking about how great someone was who was once the main character" that this movie does but again this is supposed to pay tribute to Chadwick Boseman so having the love of his life talk about him and how sorry she was to not be at his wedding work. Plus hey this movie actually did have something I thought was only going to be in a potnetial second movie that would of had Chadwick in them; T'Challa and her kid... T'Challa Junior/The second. I guess the idea is "hey we are going to probably have T'Challa as black panther again but this is the T'Challa" but man unless there's another major time skip or this kid ages up... isn't that like 20 something years down the line? I get wanting to plan your stories out but this seems a bit super forward Marvel but I guess it's more to sell an emotional moment and show that Chadwick/T'Challa's lineage will go on and that wasn't totally gone and buried. I also appreciate the bits they did with Riri Willaims. From what I hear this is a very polarizing character in the comics for how she took over the mantle of Iron Man and "this is the only person in the world who could of made such a genius magnet" seems like it would come dangerous close to that but her attitude and being in awe yet willing to help out in crunch time did endear you enough to the character. I like her trying to throw things at Okoye and being annoyed at the FBI for trying to raid her lab and then passing out blowing out the drone (which I guess is the vague Tony Stark relation... I've said this before BTW and I'll say it again; I have no problem them not making that explicit here because they already did that kind of story with Peter Parker in the MCU doing it with Tony again wouldn't work) and working with Shuri and making her own suit that is kept by Wakanda but getting the car she and her dad worked on back in a sense does make you connect enough with the character. Will be weird though seeing her with own series as I doubt we'll get as solid mechs as we did here but eh still curious enough to check it out. Also appreciate the bits we got with Ross with him wanting to help out Shuri and go owing them for saving his life in the last movie and I like the reveal he and Fontaine used to apparently be married and him being helped out by Shuri and Okoye at the end.

So yeah pretty solid movie for it's themes and ideals and though not having many set pieces (sans the chase/bridge fight and clash in the major city only one big battle at the end) what we did have work and the emotions and drama were certainly solid. And I do really appreciate how this one handled Boseman's legacy but knew how to pass it on to the next generation and the stuff they did with Shuri's development and handling those ideals of revenge and all. And honestly mostly smaller nitpicky moments or ideals is what I didn't like though nothing quite as potent as the last movie here personally for me it still really worked and yeah is a worthy sequel for Black Panther.
 
My family loved it but I went into the movie with my own personal and long developed problems with it from the jump. I knew that "El niño sin amor" was never going to vibe with me as that same arrogant and powerful jerk I loved since 2nd Grade when my best friend introduced me to his favorite superhero, who I both chuckled at and was intrigued by. I knew that they were changing the Atlanteans' names and giving them the more South American origins but I still didn't know the extent that they were changing everything. I knew this was going to remain just my own personal gripe though. It's not as though they're making this movie for me. I can only imagine how much of the intended audience was going to have any idea of who Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner was beforehand. The changes would never be what detracted from it for them. The actor did a solid enough job with what he was assigned.

The course of T'Challa's journey was one I expected them to make from the day after I heard of Chadwick's untimely passing, and I don't think I was ever going to be ready for that. I waited 20 plus years to see everyone else embrace the character like I did when I first discovered him on a Marvel decal sticker I got from one of those quarter slot vending machines. I still have the Ecko t-shirt that I bought as a teenager with the Jungle Action #23 cover that never failed to be a conversation piece, whether it was with the kids I was a summer camp counselor to that would ask me if it was Batman or the guys or my freshman dormmates at my old HBCU who had no idea who the character was. It was never going to be easy to see the character go so soon after seeing him actually realized. This was going to have remain my own personal gripe again.



Much like with Namor, I was having a hard time visualizing Letitia Wright's Shuri become the successor of the Black Panther but I thought she did a very admirable job throughout the duration of the movie. I'm probably sold on seeing her doing more, going forward. Only time will tell. Angela Bassett can never do any wrong in my book, and I loved seeing her as Queen Ramonda dealing with all of the political turmoil in the wake of T'Challa's death. During the first half of the movie, that was what kept my interest when so much else didn't. The movie really picked up for me after Wakanda was attacked but I absolutely hated to see her killed off like that. The old familiars (Mbaku, Okoye, Nakia, Ross) remained welcome sights but I'm not quite sure where they're going with Everett Ross though. The reaction to Riri Williams has been pretty amusing. I think I may have been hearing as many laughs as I heard groans. I thought her inclusion would feel more forced than it was but it did seem to be in line with the kind of situation I'd think she might get herself into. The underwater scenes felt underwhelming to me but I think I was into the battles with the Wakandans.

I don't expect the MCU to last another 20 years, to the point where Jr might be ready for the position, but I did find it a little heartwarming that the world will continue to have a T'Challa.



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Caught Black Panther over the weekend and really enjoyed it but I thought the first one was a bit better. I like that it took its time paying respects to T'Challa/Boseman but I thought the pacing was a bit slow for the first half of the movie. There are times when I felt the movie really didn't get going proper until the last act. Ironheart was great and I am now pretty excited for her Disney+ show but you could argue she could've been left out of the movie. I am glad that Shuri has taken up the mantle and I'm really curious where they are going to go with her. I thought that Marvel was maybe going to surprise us and make either Nakia or Okoye the new Panther which I kinda wish they did. Namor was good too and he seems to fit the MCU mold of bad guys mostly not being real bad guys. but he didn't feel like the Namor we know from the comics so I am assuming they have more work to do on him. Overall BP2 was good but it made some choices that I thought weren't the strongest but I'm still interested enough to see where they go with Wakanda that I'm down for the next BP movie even if the MCU watching is going to be a case-by-case basis going forward. The movie's highlight was the end credit scene no doubt.
 
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

I knew a couple of things going in.

1. I probably wasn't going to like it.

2. I wouldn't hold that fact against it.

Truth is I liked it slightly more than I thought I would, but I still didn't like it much. Aside from the fact that it's unreasonable to expect a secondary actor like Letitia Wright to carry the franchise in the same way as Chadwick Freaking Boseman, the truth is, it's a movie about grief, and that's no fun. And it's only about grief because of real-world events. I can't fault the producers for being so shellshocked by Boseman's death that they refused to recast T'Challa. But still, this is not the sequel that was planned or that we were due.

Ross was married to the Contessa? Poor dude. Lucky he got out of that marriage alive. Is Everett Ross related to Thaddeus Ross? I forget if that's ever come up before.

I actually like Namor which is a bit of a surprise considering what a turd every other incarnation of that character is portrayed as upon their introduction. Yes, I would describe his plans and motivations as sinister. But the reason Kevin Feige has value is he understands the character can be sinister, and still civil, reasonable, and likable. Every other cartoon I've seen Namor in as an antagonist goes out of its way to say how much he sucks and what a jerk he is. It's unnecessary. Take note: Recent Marvel Cartoons used to portray T'CHALLA as a jerk of all people, but it never occurred to the Marvel Television producers that "complicated" and "a total bunghole" are not actually synonyms. Kids, your antagonists looking to reform someday on your superhero cartoons don't HAVE to be as unlikable as the adults making the cartoons show them as. They are they way because those adult writers are simply bad at their jobs.

I love that Shuri sees Killmonger on the Vision Quest. And nothing really told me later on that that was inappropriate either.

I love M'Baku. He is a full out villain in other incarnations, but I like that the MCU has put him in the role of Wise Counsel instead. He's the one character besides the Williams kid making me smile.

Is that Ironheart? Weird movie for her to debut in, although it seems weird to debut Namor in a Black Panther movie too (or at least one without T'Challa).

I didn't much dig it. But my epic hate rants against Eternals, and the latest Thor and Doctor Strange sequels simply do not apply to this movie. It's a bummer, but really that's actually through no fault of its own. **1/2.
 
The perfect conclusion to Phase 4, a phase that was mostly about grief and moving on in the wake of Endgame. But also continuing the Black Panther arc that started in Civil War of mourning, vengeance, and secrets. Civil War was of course T'Challa being consumed with grief over his father's death but ultimately choosing to reject vengeance and sparing Zemo as the secrets of the Winter Soldier Program and why Howard and Maria Stark really died. The 1st BP was Kilmonger being frozen in his grief over his father's murder, T'Challa coming to a middleground and agreeing Wakanda should be opened up as the secret of Kilmonger and his father are revealed. Here, it's about Shuri consumed with the deaths of T'Challa and Ramonda and choosing to spare Namor amid the secret of Vibranium existing elsewhere and another royal secret coming to light. Letitia Wright gave a heck of a performance and really ran the emotional gambit of all the stages of grief and landing in a place of acceptance and balance. Letting go of her anger and grief and sparing Namor instead of sparking an eternal war between Wakanda and Talokan and endless bloodshed. The challenge of dealing with the passing of Chadwick Boseman was handled it in a very respectful and reverent manner. Easily the best sequel since Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

Namor was amazing. I was relieved Tenoch knocked him out of the park. I really cared about him and he made me feel his motives. What a gutwrenching yet horrifying origin story. And really appreciated the similarities between the two nations and mirroring each other in wanting to be isolationist and protect itself from the rest of the world who only covets its resources. Also its origins tied to a patron god and a herb enriched by a Vibranium meteor. And naturally, the similarities between Namor and Shuri. But Namor was basically frozen for centuries in his opinions of the world because of what he was told, being born different/treated as a godking, and the incident at the slave plantation. Yet, he only wants to do right by Talokan and keep it and its people safe. And of course, the way he secured the alliance was well shifty... Also interesting they made Namor a mutant – even said it – loved his unique fighting style and totally happy they kept the wings and a bit of the arrogance his comic book counterpart is infamous for. Subtle but still there. Props to Riri and Shuri coming up with the idea to toast him and fight him in a desert. Brutal fight ending with him getting roasted then spared. Man! Amazing stuff.

Riri was a neat scrappy addition. A genius on the level of Shuri but having to hustle because she only has a 'box of scraps' to work with in her current situation. Yet managed to pull off a Vibranium detector and an Iron Man-esque suit. And the experience of having everything at her disposal to make a top of the line Mark II. Should be interesting to see where she goes having to start from scratch again when her D+ show premieres. But idk, still felt a bit shoe horned into the movie at times.

From a visual standpoint, the movie was so beautiful: the lighting, the scenery, the CGI, the score, felt like they really stepped it up from the first movie. It was intriguing to see more of Wakanda like that north side where the funeral procession takes place and the River Tribe's land – as well as the infusion of the Mesoamerican and Mayan cultural representations for Talokan. Glad they didn't lean too much into humor like some of the recent movies have but still some funny stuff like Okoye at MIT or M'Baku joking about Nakia saving Shuri.

Am a little on the fence with Ramonda firing Okoye and her being killed off. I get how that fed into the finale but still, idk. But But. Such an unexpected but amazing parallel to The Dark World: a Queen protects a visitor to her kingdom that she barely knows at the cost of her own life.

Probably the big shocker was Contessa is not only CIA but the flipping Director and Ross's ex! Like the subtext in her past appearances was she was probably black ops or part of some shadow cabinet working behind the scenes. Nope, she's in charge of one of top U.S. federal agencies. I guess Ross will be given asylum in Wakanda. Brilliant move for Shuri to encounter Kilmonger on the Ancestral Plane. And he only stoked the conflict in her and making it clear the two choices she had. Didn't expect Namor to be like 454 years old. And oh yeah, T'Challa and Nakia had a secret son. Wasn't surprised M'Baku became the next king. The only thing Shuri was less interested in than becoming a Black Panther was a queen. Should be a fun dynamic between the two. They had a lot of great scenes in the movie. In a way similar to how T'Chaka was king while T'Challa was Black Panther and off protecting the country.

The troubling but intriguing aspect of the story for me is sorta of the idealistic and noble veneer is gone. The pretexts are over. Not learning at all from their own history, we have nations like the U.S. and France who are doing/thinking of unsavory methods to covet Vibranium all for themselves. So it's a new Imperialism/Cold War/Arms Race gearing up. And are the upcoming Captain America: Brave New World and Thunderbolts movies a taste of that? Just so happens to occur when Thaddeus Ross is no longer the Secretary of State and was succeeded by the character Richard Schiff portrays (what a get!). So the implication is we have a new administration – Matthew Ellis is out and thus, so is his cabinet. Though nice little easter egg when Contessa turns the TV on to CNN and there's a news ticker of President Ritson signing a trade pact with New Asgard. Maybe even a hypothetical Black Panther 3 will be about the world powers taking on Wakanda (and Talokan) with their own super soldier strike teams? But Secret Invasion and Skrulls first. The Secretary literally told Contessa and Ross the President wanted them to cause destabilization, pretty much a direct reference to their dirty Cold War history. But still overall, the CIA has been in the background since Iron Man 1 and now it stands to reason Phase 5 is when they will be at the forefront.

Looking back on the CIA's presence in the MCU with just the movies and D+ shows
-In "Captain Marvel," Nick Fury was a CIA agent during the Cold War and had missions in Belfast, Budapest, Bucharest, and Belgrade.
-In "Iron Man," the CIA approached Stark Industries after Tony was kidnapped.
-In "The Incredible Hulk," the CIA and FBI cooperated with General Ross in the pursuit of Hulk. The CIA even led the monitoring of the Pingo Doce Bottling Plant.
-In "Iron Man 3," the CIA had intel on the Mandarian bombings.
-In "Captain America: The Winter Soldier," Sharon Carter went to work for the CIA.
-In "Captain America: Civil War," Everett Ross commanded the Joint Counter Terrorist Centre in Berlin.
-In "Black Panther," Erik Stevens was in the CIA's Joint Special Operations Command and destabilized infrastructure of foreign countries. The CIA helped track down Klaue and set up the Vibranium sale in Busan. Then Klaue was taken to a CIA black site.
-In "The Falcon and The Winter Soldier," it was revealed the CIA recruited ex-HYDRA scientist Wilfred Nagel to recreate the Super Soldier Serium used on Winter Soldier. Their program used blood samples taken from Isaiah Bradley. After the Snap, the CIA closed down the program. Lemar Hoskins asked the CIA for intel on the Flag Smashers. Contessa recruits Walker and he's later rebranded U.S. Agent. Sharon returns to the CIA.
-In "Black Widow," Contessa contracted Yelena to kill Hawkeye.

Including the Marvel TV stuff, in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
-In the 1950s, Sousa contacted the CIA and tried to request them to do an internal investigation into sleeper agents.
-In 1x20 "Nothing Personal," the CIA was one of the agencies that questioned Maria Hill.
And in Punisher
-Chief Special Agent William Rawlins supervised ops in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Urugay.
-Operation Cerberus in Afghanistan, unsanctioned covert op
-Rawlins uses Anvil to try and silence Frank Castle

2/22/23: The Music of Wakanda Forever set for February 28 on Disney+.

3/12: Won Oscar for Best Costume.
 
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Okay hear me out, Isn't it kind of crazy how CN never thought about doing a Kids Next Door x Teen Titans OG crossover back in the 2000s? There's five members of Sector V, five titans, and they both have super cool HQs. I'm telling you guys, a TT and KND crossover would've been so epic!
Watched the live-action "Moana" today and felt nothing that special compared to the original 2016 film. In fact, I don't remember much from the first animated film, but I think they barely changed anything in the 2026 version
@Sam the Cartoonist is right, I've registered on this site two times and I've enjoyed it! :) I'd posted this back in 2016, over ten years ago!

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