Spiderman 67 takes padding to a whole new level

[Chris Wood]

I just watched King Pinned, and what a disappointment. I've heard the budget was tight on this show, but the amount of recycled webswinging is ridiculous. Spidey is airborne for more than 6 minutes!! That's almost one third of the episode. In one "thrilling" chase sequence he swings for 3 minutes straight!!! I'm sure any 6 year olds in the room changed the channel long before that was over.

I love the art design and the music, but I just can't take that much swinging. At the end Spidey says be sure not to miss next week's incredible episode, and then we get a preview which is nearly 50% swinging!! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Somebody stop him!

If they had to save money couldn't they have just had characters drag out their motionless conversations a little longer?

 

[Spider-Friends]

I just watched King Pinned...I just can't take that much swinging.

Well, there is good news and bad news. "Kingpinned" is a second season episode. The second season is when Ralph Bakshi took over and the budget got tight, hence so much web-swinging time. The good news is that you might possibly enjoy the first season since it's budget wasn't so restrictive. The bad news is, "Kingpinned" is one of the less offensive episodes of the second and third season.

 

[Jon T]

The bad news is, "Kingpinned" is one of the less offensive episodes of the second and third season.

That's so true; that episode is one of the very few from the second and third seasons that actually features a comicbook villain. Unless I'm mistaken, I think Kingpin was the last villain from the comics to be introduced to the series. From then on afterwards it was original (and many of them inexplicably green-skinned) villains all the way.

Recycling 6 minutes of animation may be tough for the viewer, but my interest ran dry when a single episode's entire plot was reused with minimal alterations not once, but twice ("Swing City", "Up From Nowhere" & "Specialists and Slaves"). Those second and third season budgets must have almost been nonexistent.

 

[Chris Wood]

So how many episodes were there in each season? I'm thinking about getting that box set, but I'll pass if most of it is like King Pinned. Seems to me the origin episode was much better. That must have been first season.

I wonder why they used recycled webswinging instead of just having Spidey argue with a villain or flirt with MJ for 5 minutes. There's almost no animation in the conversation scenes anyway, and it would be much more interesting.


There's more ridiculous stuff in King Pinned. Kingpin and his goons drive to the Daily Bugle, threaten JJ, then grab him and make an interminable return trip. But when they get back, all they do is threaten him again. They could have done that right in his office and saved us 3 minutes of driving boredom.

And when Spidey is "racing" across town to the Daily Bugle to stop a bomb due to go off in 2 minutes, he hitches a ride on a blimp. A blimp?!!!!!!!!!! Way to put the pedal to the floor there Spidey.

 

[Spider-Friends]

So how many episodes were there in each season?

There were 52 thirty minute episodes altogether. (20 in the first season;19 in the second; 13 in the third.)

I'm thinking about getting that box set, but I'll pass if most of it is like King Pinned. Seems to me the origin episode was much better. That must have been first season.

I'd say the price is worth it if you enjoy cartoons of this era. The origin episode is actually from the second season and is one of the best episodes, I think. It's more mature and more psychadelic than the first season episodes. There's not as much emphasis on Peter in the first season either.

I wonder why they used recycled webswinging instead of just having Spidey argue with a villain or flirt with MJ for 5 minutes.

They would have had to pay someone to write the dialogue.

And when Spidey is "racing" across town to the Daily Bugle to stop a bomb due to go off in 2 minutes, he hitches a ride on a blimp. A blimp?!!!!!!!!!! Way to put the pedal to the floor there Spidey.

I'd bet the blimp was recycled from another episode or another cartoon from the same company.

 

[Krypton_Knight]

The first season, the Grantree-Lawrence produced episodes were pretty good, with a little padding, but not enough to slow the pace of the episode. The Bakshi episodes, on the other hand, were more heavily padded than an average episode of Rocket Robin Hood. For years I've wanted to take a stopwatch to one of them and time it without the transition sequences just to see how short they really were.

The origin episode is the first of the Bakshi ones. You can usually tell them by their psychedelic backgrounds. They only get worse after "King Pinned" - **much** worse - to the point where the only joy in them is to spot their ineptitude (such as the Mysterio episode that recasts Mysterio as an out of costume guy with a green tint to his skin that puffs away on a cigarette holder, yet still has dialogue where Spidey calls him "Bowlhead".)

They were made on virtually no budget, and it shows.

KK

 

[Chris Wood]

[Krypton_Knight]The first season, the Grantree-Lawrence produced episodes were pretty good, with a little padding, but not enough to slow the pace of the episode. The Bakshi episodes, on the other hand, were more heavily padded than an average episode of Rocket Robin Hood.

Was Rocket Robin Hood that bad? I've only seen a couple episodes.

For years I've wanted to takea stopwatch to one of them and time it without the transition sequences just to see how short they really were.

I did that with King Pinned. It boiled down to about 7 minutes of transitions (mostly swinging) and 14 minutes of story. Although I use the word "story" loosely here. The Kingpin is forcing pharmacists to buy his crappy drugs? Doesn't sound like a very efficient business plan. And boy are his goons wimpy looking. JJ probably could've taken them on his own.

The thing that really gets me is how dark this show looks. It probably made little kids cry back in the day. It's Spiderman after all, not the Dark Knight. It should be bright and colorful.

 

[Krypton_Knight]

Was Rocket Robin Hood that bad? I've only seen a couple episodes.

With Rocket Robin, a lot of padding was the vignettes they played over and over again with every episode. With Bakshi Spider-Man, it's the stock web footage.

I did that with King Pinned. It boiled down to about 7 minutes of transitions (mostly swinging) and 14 minutes of story. Although I use the word "story" loosely here. The Kingpin is forcing pharmacists to buy his crappy drugs? Doesn't sound like a very efficient business plan. And boy are his goons wimpy looking. JJ probably could've taken them on his own.

The thing that really gets me is how dark this show looks. It probably made little kids cry back in the day. It's Spiderman after all, not the Dark Knight. It should be bright and colorful.

The Grantree-Lawrence episodes didn't have that problem. Bakshi's palette is darker and the backgrounds decidedly psychedelic. And it gets even worse when he starts doing Spider-Man vs. three variations on "Lameass Mole-People swallow the city" episodes which are spent almost entirely underground.

Then there are the two Rocket Robin Hood episodes which are *directly* lifted into Spidey, with Spidey in place of the Merry Men. That's cheapness on a scale that makes the Marvel cut-out series of the mid-60s look extravagant by comparison.

KK

 

[JabarR]

Now hold on a minute!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, the animation of this classic cartoon was cheesy, yes, they kept recycling cel footage, but this cartoon does have its strong points. Like good story dialogue and a very popular theme song (Which everybody still sings to this very day). When GrantRay-Lawrence and Krantz Films produced the 1st season, they kept it true to the comic, only focusing on Peter/Spidey's job at the Daily Bugle with his love interest, Betty Brant, and his hard and hot-headed boss, J. Jonah Jameson (Whom Paul Kligman did an incredible job and is the best J.J.J. in the history of all the Spidey cartoons), and the usual villians: Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Vulture, Cowboy & Ox, Rhino, etc. The 2nd season (which was produced by Bakshi and Krantz) did give some good eps, this season took Peter/Spidey out of his job at the Daily Bugle and focused more on his personal life. The 3rd season wasn't that good, but there were a few ones that were good. You people need to look before you leap, this is still a classic whether ya'll like it or not, and there are websites devoted to this, here's one of them:

http://www.geocities.com/classicspiderman

 

[Spider-Friends]

...this is still a classic whether ya'll like it or not...

Heh. That reminded me of a Cheers episode where Sam said, "A lot of people don't know this but I happen to be quite famous."

I think a "classic" is something that can cross generations. (For example, The Brady Bunch is a classic.) Spider-Man 67 didn't do that IMO...but the theme song did.

 

[Crossdive]

granted, they drew out the swinging repeats WAAAAAAAAAY to much in some of the later episodes, but the show was great anyway. As a whole. I definately like the 1st season stuff the most, hands down, in every department I enjoyed it more, but I liked all of the show.

 

[Chris Wood]

I would have thought all that webswinging would have killed the ratings, but maybe kids were more easily satisfied in the 60s.

It must have taken some serious balls for Bakshi to pitch these episodes to the network:

Bakshi: Now this exciting scene features 3 solid minutes of webswinging, marking the fourth appearance of this footage in this episode and the 897th appearance this season.

Exec #1: And we're paying you how much???!

Exec #2: (heavy snoring).

 

[Pepperidge]

Apparently Bakshi's words of inspiration during the production of Spider-Man were "just keep the bastard swinging!"

Was Rocket Robin Hood that bad? I've only seen a couple episodes.

The first and second seasons of RRH (which were produced in Toronto) were of very poor quality, but were overall much more flexible than the third season which was done by Bakshi. Of course, in the case of RRH, some of the most outstanding episodes in the series (ie: the only ones you could attribute actual artistic merit to) were in the third season. Unfortunately, there were only about four or five of these, and the rest of the season just reused entire sequences over and over again, including a clipshow and at least two or three episodes made entirely of footage only from other third season episodes.

In the third season, a scene in which Robin and the gang fight mummies was used three times. Now, I can suspend my disbelief enough to accept the idea of a 14th century-style despotic monarchy forming in futuristic space colonies in conflict with a band of heroes who happen to be direct descendants of the original Merry Men fighting for the exact same cause, but you can't honestly expect me to believe that these characters would ever find themselves in a situation in which they would have to fight mummies more than once.

 

[Hypestyle]

I just watched King Pinned, and what a disappointment. I've heard the budget was tight on this show, but the amount of recycled webswinging is ridiculous. Spidey is airborne for more than 6 minutes!! That's almost one third of the episode. In one "thrilling" chase sequence he swings for 3 minutes straight!!! I'm sure any 6 year olds in the room changed the channel long before that was over.

I love the art design and the music, but I just can't take that much swinging. At the end Spidey says be sure not to miss next week's incredible episode, and then we get a preview which is nearly 50% swinging!! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Somebody stop him!

If they had to save money couldn't they have just had characters drag out their motionless conversations a little longer?

I have to get around to grabbing the boxed set.. i've seen it used, a few places..

 

[Crossdive]

me too, I have too many things to buy and too little to do so with. I keep intending to get it, but something always comes up. X_X

 

[FidoMcCokefiend]

I remember reading somewhere that one ep of spiderman used not just plot, but the FOOTAGE and VILLIAN from an ep of RRH. anyone got any info on this?

 

[Jon T]

I remember reading somewhere that one ep of spiderman used not just plot, but the FOOTAGE and VILLIAN from an ep of RRH. anyone got any info on this?

Apparently it was the two 'space-themed' episodes, "Phantom From The Depths Of Time" and "Revolt In the Fifth Dimension", but not having seen the original Rocket Robin Hood episodes, I'm not 100% certain. The atmosphere in those episodes is slightly different from the rest of the second and third season episodes (which also admittedly had some bizarre plots).

 

[angilbas]

Apparently it was the two 'space-themed' episodes, "Phantom From The Depths Of Time" and "Revolt In the Fifth Dimension", but not having seen the original Rocket Robin Hood episodes, I'm not 100% certain. The atmosphere in those episodes is slightly different from the rest of the second and third season episodes (which also admittedly had some bizarre plots).

Phantom From the Depths of Time re-uses much animation from the RRH ep From Menace to Menace. There are a few differences: when the villain plays his organ to activate the stone elephant, he presses several keys simultaneously for Spidey, but keys the opening notes to Paint it Black for Robin. A lizard lounges on the rock which becomes the Robin-chasing elephant. And Spidey benefits from a continuity error in which his aircraft turns up intact after being ripped by the beetles.

Revolt In the Fifth Dimension is a remake of the most popular RRH ep of all ... Dementia Five. But Spidey doesn't see all of the striking imagery which challenged Robin.


-Tony

 

[krankyboy]

Guys, you have to remember that "Spider-Man" had a threadbare budget (especially in seasons two and three) as did most Saturday morning cartoons in the era. We aren't talking Disney or even the Warner Brothers/MGM shorts during their 1940's and 1950's peak here. I'm actually amazed that Bakshi managed to put anything together at all, and he still squeezed out a handful of cool episodes, including "The Origin of Spider-Man."

This also wasn't a cartoon for teenagers or adults, as the target age group was probably somewhere between five and eleven. Little kids had never seen Spider-Man animated in a cartoon before, so this was cool stuff (and actually, was still kinda fun and cool when I was growing up in the eighties). And Spider-Man was allowed to make a fist and hit people before the conservative parental watchdog group, Action for Children's Television, put an end to that in 1970 or so -- claiming that kids would imitate Spider-Man and Superman punching out their adversaries.

Yeah, there was too much web-swinging. Yeah, Bakshi put together some episodes as though he thought the kids watching it were dropping acid before each installment (which probably would've been a good idea). Sure, it seems "campy" to a bunch of modern-day teenagers and young adults who are sitting and criticizing it without the benefit of nostalgia. I'm sure that "Jonny Quest" and many of the other cartoons of the era would probably come off the same way, but that doesn't mean you bash 'em or bury those suckers in a vault. They have their own strange place in "classic" television.

Anyway, my first post. Glad to be here with you guys. Just felt that someone had to stick up for this cartoon a little bit.

 

[El Hulko]

Well, first of all, Hi everyone. I'm El Hulko and since I'm an oldtimer I can say back in my childhood (early 80's) the 60's Spiderman was a legend. Far away from boring, the swinging secquences and pace were mesmerizing.

I used to like the first season more, but the other two are awesome, surrealistic and psychodelic. You can yell 'Nostalgia!' but I think it was very interesting and atypical.