The Toonami Thread

[hezzy]

What does Toonami have to offer CN today?

If it were to come back it would just play repeats of samurai jack

 

[Gonzales]

Alright I think it's time for all the would be dreamers and those who oppose their opinions to lay all the cards out on the table.

I want a serious debate and leave your bias at the door whether you're for or against. Give solid reasons as to why CN should or shouldn't bring back Toonami for a future generation. And before anyone says "the ratings were bad" that may have been the case from time to time but the ratings of Toonami generally were quite good so there's reason to believe it could do well again.

What does Toonami have to offer CN today?

If it has nothing to offer then it's time to put the old girl down.

The true value of Toonami wasn't it's programming, it was it's brand.

Toonami was like the cooler older brother of CN. It fit in with CN's core audience, but at the same time it could show things that you wouldn't see normally. It wasn't like Adult Swim. It was edgy, but still family-friendly.

Once CN stopped wanting it to be that, it just became a block with unique bumpers.

 

[Goldstar!]

The true value of Toonami wasn't it's programming, it was it's brand.

Respectfully, I have to disagree. It's the programming that makes a program block, not it's wraparounds. Wraparounds are just the wrapping paper, it's the gift itself that's important. It doesn't matter how attractive the wraparounds are if the shows are mediocre.

Think of it this way: The shows that aired on Toonami in it's hey-day was the pizza, while TOM and the wraparounds were the Parmesan cheese and the green peppers sprinkled on top of it; sure, they made the pizza better, but even without them, it's still pizza.

When the good shows left Toonami for various reasons, the block became mediocre, TOM bumps and all. We've discussed this about a dozen times here before, but may stance is that if Cartoon Network were to bring Toonami back the way that it was in it's last season when all it was showing was reruns of Samurai Jack and Ben 10: Alien Force, the the block is better off staying gone, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[miraimike]

Alright I think it's time for all the would be dreamers and those who oppose their opinions to lay all the cards out on the table.

I want a serious debate and leave your bias at the door whether you're for or against. Give solid reasons as to why CN should or shouldn't bring back Toonami for a future generation. And before anyone says "the ratings were bad" that may have been the case from time to time but the ratings of Toonami generally were quite good so there's reason to believe it could do well again.

What does Toonami have to offer CN today?

If it has nothing to offer then it's time to put the old girl down.

Easy one.

1- As anime is still a relatively untouched resource on television, Toonami grabbed hold of something with a lot of untapped potential. There's an insane amount of material just begging to be aired.
2- It's ridiculous that there is currently little to no decent time given to action cartoons on the network, given the previous success of Batman, Superman, Justice League and Teen Titans. To have an animated tie-in to a superhero movie airing on a consistent action block at a reasonable time is an enviable situation.
3- There's the benefit of consistent new premieres and fast acquisitions. Many of the acquired shows were ready to air with little-to-no lead-in time. In essence, you could have multiple hours of brand new premieres on a daily basis.
4- When you have a long-running block that's airing popular shows, its easier for a network to slip in different material and ride coat-tails.

I blame the occasional ratings failures on poor acquisitions and not on the block itself.

 

[The Man in Black]

Alright I think it's time for all the would be dreamers and those who oppose their opinions to lay all the cards out on the table.

I want a serious debate and leave your bias at the door whether you're for or against. Give solid reasons as to why CN should or shouldn't bring back Toonami for a future generation. And before anyone says "the ratings were bad" that may have been the case from time to time but the ratings of Toonami generally were quite good so there's reason to believe it could do well again.

What does Toonami have to offer CN today?

If it has nothing to offer then it's time to put the old girl down.

You know I was going to tell you how much of a really bad idea this was, and then I noticed that it was you that posted it, Sketch, and it really threw me for a loop. lol..

 

[Beefy]

What does Toonami have to offer? What the mission always was supposed to be: the finest action cartoons on the planet. Great shows coupled with awesome packaging and cool beats that made the viewer feel like they were a part of something special.

Could another block have pulled this off? You Are Here could have, in theory. The major hurdle to overcome these days is: companies want the greatest returns with the minimal amount of investment. YAH and Toonami both started out good, but then the network got tired of them and instead of putting the investment into them to keep them fresh, devoted their resources elsewhere.

Ever since Toonami moved to Saturdays in 2004, we've only gotten bumper changes once a year and no TIEs. The yearly TIEs were part of what helped the viewer connect with the block and made them feel like they could make a difference.

If Toonami were to come back, the network better be committed to spending money on the block to make the packaging, game reviews, and special events instead of just letting it ride on cruise control.
When I think of all the money the network poured into the CN Real shows and their advertising blitz, only to have CN Real bomb royally, I wonder how awesome Toonami could have been if it got that kind of budget to play with.

As others have said: the packaging is only one part of the block. The other is the shows. Disney has Marvel and Naruto Shippuden now, so those are off the table. A Dark Horse or DC show could still be made for the block. FUNimation has lots of shows I'm sure they would love to get on TV. Cartoon Network and these companies just need to work out a deal, and hopefully they won't have a falling out like CN and Viz.

So to sum things up: Toonami could come back if Cartoon Network really wanted it to. If the people in charge had the attitude to make Toonami and the network great again.
Maybe one day they'll realize that live action isn't the answer. Until then Toonami should not be brought back if it's going to be starved and neglected again.

 

[chdr]

^ Here's my problem with that:

What's stopping Cartoon Network from doing something like that without the Toonami name? Absolutely nothing. And that's the problem.

Toonami doesn't have to come back. The spirit and environment that allowed Toonami to exist does.

 

[Silverstar]

What's stopping Cartoon Network from doing something like that without the Toonami name? Absolutely nothing. And that's the problem.

Toonami doesn't have to come back. The spirit and environment that allowed Toonami to exist does.

Everybody please read this.

The Toonami name is just that--a name. The Toonami name, brand and wraparounds are not what made the block so great; it was the spirit, commitment to quality and awesome shows that did.

Cartoon Network could easily give us an eclectic, high-quality, kick-butt action cartoon block once again without having to call it Toonami or bring back TOM or any of the Absolution bumps. They'd just have to care about the block, its' audience and the shows they acquired for it.

To add to what Beefy said, You Are Here could be that block, but making it such is clearly not tops on Toon's priority list. If Toon poured half as much money and attention to their action roster as they devote to the likes of CNReal, that Scooby-Doo live-action prequel and Ben 10: Alien Swarm, then we could likely be looking at the network's action cartoon block renaissance.

 

[The Man in Black]

Everybody please read this.

The Toonami name is just that--a name. The Toonami name, brand and wraparounds are not what made the block so great; it was the spirit, commitment to quality and awesome shows that did.

Cartoon Network could easily give us an eclectic, high-quality, kick-butt action cartoon block once again without having to call it Toonami or bring back TOM or any of the Absolution bumps. They'd just have to care about the block, its' audience and the shows they acquired for it.

To add to what Beefy said, You Are Here could be that block, but making it such is clearly not tops on Toon's priority list. If Toon poured half as much money and attention to their action roster as they devote to the likes of CNReal, that Scooby-Doo live-action prequel and Ben 10: Alien Swarm, then we could likely be looking at the network's action cartoon block renaissance.

Exactly.

 

[Beefy]

^ Here's my problem with that:

What's stopping Cartoon Network from doing something like that without the Toonami name? Absolutely nothing. And that's the problem.

Toonami doesn't have to come back. The spirit and environment that allowed Toonami to exist does.

That's what I was trying to say: You Are Here could be a worthy successor, or they could make a brand new action block, it doesn't have to be Toonami.

The problem is where the network's priorities lie. As long as live action gets first priority on resources that could be spent making a great action block or even comedy cartoons, then no matter what block is there it will not be given the attention it deserves, grow stale, and die.

 

[AnimationX]

Everybody please read this.

The Toonami name is just that--a name. The Toonami name, brand and wraparounds are not what made the block so great; it was the spirit, commitment to quality and awesome shows that did.

Cartoon Network could easily give us an eclectic, high-quality, kick-butt action cartoon block once again without having to call it Toonami or bring back TOM or any of the Absolution bumps. They'd just have to care about the block, its' audience and the shows they acquired for it.

To add to what Beefy said, You Are Here could be that block, but making it such is clearly not tops on Toon's priority list. If Toon poured half as much money and attention to their action roster as they devote to the likes of CNReal, that Scooby-Doo live-action prequel and Ben 10: Alien Swarm, then we could likely be looking at the network's action cartoon block renaissance.

Okay, I love this guy! Anyhow, I think CN isn't too serious about YAH or at least they aren't as serious about YAH as they first were back in fall of 2008, but I think the block is a good one and worthy of given some better treatment from the network. Toonami was special for so many reasons but the biggest reason of them all was the shows that aired during the block, same goes with any block in my opinion.

 

[ToonFaithful]

Everybody please read this.

The Toonami name is just that--a name. The Toonami name, brand and wraparounds are not what made the block so great; it was the spirit, commitment to quality and awesome shows that did.

Cartoon Network could easily give us an eclectic, high-quality, kick-butt action cartoon block once again without having to call it Toonami or bring back TOM or any of the Absolution bumps. They'd just have to care about the block, its' audience and the shows they acquired for it.

To add to what Beefy said, You Are Here could be that block, but making it such is clearly not tops on Toon's priority list. If Toon poured half as much money and attention to their action roster as they devote to the likes of CNReal, that Scooby-Doo live-action prequel and Ben 10: Alien Swarm, then we could likely be looking at the network's action cartoon block renaissance.

Exactly. You Are Here is a great block so what you're saying is that You Are Here can be just like Toonami? It can be.

 

[Sketch]

Yes, everything Toonami was capable of could be done with another block and another brand.

So the only argument there is for Toonami specifically is the brand itself and any loyalty it might have from the viewers. You could certainly shrug that off but objectively consider that many kids watch Nick's shows BECAUSE they're on Nick. They trust the brand. They like the brand. In other words, the brand matters.

In the media nostalgia is a strong selling point as well.

New Super Mario Bros. for instance. Parents buy that for their kids because it's Super Mario Bros. like they remember.

Movies based on GI-Joe, Transformers and other 80s properties a big right now.

Does Toonami have that level of nostalgia? Probably not. It's was only around 11 years.

Is it a popular enough brand to revive? Perhaps but only if CN can do with it what they did before and having it named Toonami doesn't mean they'll do it right.

And for these reasons I see how Toonami could be revived and be awesome again, I can see how another block could carry the torch in everything but the name and I could see how it could return and be a wasted effort that wouldn't last. The 2nd is the most likely thing to occur with the current Cartoon Network but I'd be lying if I didn't say I'd love to see the 1st occur.

 

[GWOtaku]

The thing is, they won't do it for nostalgic reasons. Cartoon Network cares about viewers that are no older than 13, so I don't think they are necessarily concerned with offering a hook to people that remember what the channel was like five years ago.

I have to agree that the commitment to excellent programming matters much more than the brand. The brand of Toonami, the style of Toonami, and so on were all simply means to the very simple end of delivering great cartoons to people. In its prime, it was a case study of what can happen when you have a clear, good vision of what to do and execute it well. That can be done anytime with strong ideas and the right people. But it'll be done with a vision that looks forward, not backward.

 

[Sketch]

If the Toonami brand means anything to anyone it's people older than CN's target. So the only place where the nostalgia card could be played is for it to be a 12-17+ block which CN has no interest in making or much more plausibly a brand for Adult Swim Action which is just about on it's last legs as it is. And I'm all for ASA being branded as Toonami and getting a more unique feel on Saturday nights but they have no reason to do that.

Which leads us to the validity of Toonami as a youth brand. It's worked before. That's all that can be said on the matter. If someone at CN thinks it could work again then maybe they'd bring it back. Otherwise they can potentially recreate the experience without the name.

So the only remaining argument is... the name is pretty catchy. But that's not a GOOD reason to bring it back. Perhaps they can come up with an ever better name some day.

 

[miraimike]

I disagree with the claim that Toonami was just a series of wraparounds. The Total Immersion Events and the consistent characters and music led to Toonami being like a show unto itself.

 

[The Man in Black]

You know what else I miss? Cartoon Orbit. I had a lot of good Toonami-related cToons back in the day..

 

[Goldstar!]

I disagree with the claim that Toonami was just a series of wraparounds. The Total Immersion Events and the consistent characters and music led to Toonami being like a show unto itself.

For the record, I never said that Toonami's wraparounds weren't important or memorable, merely that they were not the sole contributing factor in making Toonami the phenomenon that it was. The programs that aired during Toonami's peak years played a MAJOR role in the block's popularity. You came for the shows, and stayed for the shows in conjunction with the wraparounds and special events.


And there's no reason why Cartoon Network can't have something like that again. It doesn't have to be called Toonami, nor does it have to have TOM or the old wraparounds, but said block should have content that it just as good and as memorable as those ingredients aforementioned. The only thing that's stopping Toon from having another top notch action block is the network's own lack of interest in animation and it's underwhelming support for You Are Here. Like Silverstar said earlier, Toon is more concerned with becoming Nickelodeon Too and with live action projects like Ben 10: Alien Swarm than they are with turning YAH into a force to be reckoned with. It's the return to Toon's commitment to quality animated programming and quality on the level of Toonami's that we should be longing for the return of, rather than longing for the return of the block itself.

 

[Sprocket]

Toonami's wraparounds made me want to watch Thundercats and Voltron again, and even though I realized that these shows were corny as all get out, Moltar and Clyde 49 were completely and entirely the reason I kept watching.

I'd say it's not the majority opinion, but for me, the look of Toonami, the packaging, pretty much made it for me. It had a coolness that made watching the programs within it strangely satisfying. It drew me in, and kept me watching. Although that's not something you need Toonami for; you can capture a similar style without using anything Toonami related, but that feel, the 'image' is something that I consider vital. I felt the same way about Cartoon Network's promos and wraparounds in general back then: they were 'fun' and clever. They certainly beat the heck out of Kids WB's promo work, which remained horrendously cheap and poorly done right up until the end.

As far as I'm concerned, both are important, but if they found a way to keep the cool 'attitude' of Toonami without using anything related to the Toonami brand, I suppose I wouldn't complain. God knows you need to keep things fresh.

 

[Alshoff]

I felt the same way about Cartoon Network's promos and wraparounds in general back then: they were 'fun' and clever. They certainly beat the heck out of Kids WB's promo work, which remained horrendously cheap and poorly done right up until the end.

Or even look at Kids' WB Toonami. All flash, no substance.