TMNT Talkback "Turtles Forever" (Spoilers)

[ThePRPD]

Just a friendly reminder, you can read twenty-one issues of TMNT (including the first issue) for free at the official website:
http://ninjaturtles.com/html/comic.htm

Thanks for the info.

 

[Anarky]

Wow, people need to remove their nostalgia goggles for a sec because these are the '88 Turtles I remember vividly.

Imagine if you took Adam West's Batman and dropped him into The Dark Knight. This is the equivalent of Turtles Forever. Yes, the '88 gang held their own for a while and fun in the process however they faced a threat unlike any in their universe.

The movie did not pan the old show, it merely pointed out glaring differences specifically the level of menace and malice in the 2K3 realm. Facts are facts: the Utrom Shredder would've slayed the '88 Turtles in a fight. Heck, they were captured by the Purple Dragons. Except for Raph in S1, I don't recall the Dragons ever besting the 2K3 bunch in a fight.

 

[GregX]

Wow, people need to remove their nostalgia goggles for a sec because these are the '88 Turtles I remember vividly.

Imagine if you took Adam West's Batman and dropped him into The Dark Knight. This is the equivalent of Turtles Forever. Yes, the '88 gang held their own for a while and fun in the process however they faced a threat unlike any in their universe.

The movie did not pan the old show, it merely pointed out glaring differences specifically the level of menace and malice in the 2K3 realm. Facts are facts: the Utrom Shredder would've slayed the '88 Turtles in a fight. Heck, they were captured by the Purple Dragons. Except for Raph in S1, I don't recall the Dragons ever besting the 2K3 bunch in a fight.

For some reason, I read that bit in the Monarch's voice.

"21, there is a taxi idling in the driveway awaiting his fare. Slay him."

 

[rallyrev]

Well, not much to say other than that I loved TF. A couple of minor rants: (1) the 80s turtles were too goofy, even for the 80s turtles and (2) too much exposition.

#1 actually isn't too big of a deal for me. I like to think of it this way... when things got out of hand in the 80s toon, the TMNT got zany. Getting thrown into an alternate universe you don't even belong in is pretty gosh-darned out of hand. Oh, and I loved the scene with 80s April. Giant bananas? Bowling balls? Etc.? That's just the kind of screwball stuff they used to deal with, and it was even funnier that they just left her to be kidnapped again. Which makes perfect sense, since in that universe no one ever hurts April, they generally just tie her up until the TMNT can come rescue her. Technically she's not a priority.

#2 is completely forgivable since I figure the primary audience for this is going to be kids who weren't alive to watch the 80s TMNT. Still, I have to wonder if with more work, it might have worked better in spots. Probably the most awkward moments were "We were battling Shredder's ultimate weapon, The Technodrome..." which given how difficult it had been for the 80s TMNT to figure out the differences between the universes, they had no reason to explain themselves so thoroughly, and "We rescue April like once a day. You can set your watch by it." was another thing that the 80s TMNT probably shouldn't have felt they needed to explain, based on what they knew about the other universe at the time.

That's really it. If I wanted to nitpick a bunch I certainly could, but to think that they had so little time to work with and so many characters to work with, so much exposition they had to get out of the way and so many ways for things to go wrong, and really the bulk of it went so, so right. I really can't praise it enough.

 

[CyberCubed]

Wow, people need to remove their nostalgia goggles for a sec because these are the '88 Turtles I remember vividly.

Not really. I own Seasons 1-8 of the original show on DVD, so this is not a truly accurate depiction of what they're like.

The Turtles were smart in the old toon, very smart. They didn't stand around clueless as to what was happening. Old toon Don is a billion times more intelligent than 2k3 Don is. And the Turtles usually did hold their own in battle, even if sometimes the fights turned into slapstick.

That said I did like how they handled the old toon turtles in this movie, but it wasn't truly the same as it should have been. Before saying we have "nostalgia glasses," realize that some of us own the old toon on DVD, so we know what its like.

 

[W.C.Reaf]

The Turtles were smart in the old toon, very smart. They didn't stand around clueless as to what was happening. Old toon Don is a billion times more intelligent than 2k3 Don is. And the Turtles usually did hold their own in battle, even if sometimes the fights turned into slapstick.

80s Don was smart in this. He made the dimensional portal stick with 2K3 Don's help even though that Don didn't believe it was possible.

The 80s guys also held their own in the fights pretty well. I do think people are exaggerating their perceived badness.

The only time when they didn't do much was in the classic Turtles 'verse. However they were really out of their element there. I mean going from standard light-hearted 80s cartoon to a Frank Miller parody is definitely going to shake them up a bit since it's nothing like they're used to. Even the 2K3 'verse was just a more serious version of there's (in principle anyway) but the classic one was just way out of their depth.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[D Dubbs]

Episode 167: Turtles Forever, Part 1
Original Air Date: November 28th, 2009​

Relive "the greatest Ninja Turtle story ever told!" An encore presentation of Turtles Forever begins today at 10:30 AM. See what changes (if any) are made to the special as it airs in episodic format. (And thanks to Ian for the talkback image!)

 

[Storm Eagle]

Episode 167: Turtles Forever, Part 1
Original Air Date: November 28th, 2009​

Relive "the greatest Ninja Turtle story ever told!" An encore presentation of Turtles Forever begins today at 10:30 AM. See what changes (if any) are made to the special as it airs in episodic format. (And thanks to Ian for the talkback image!)

How are these episodes 167 through 169 when there are 156 episodes total?

 

[D Dubbs]

The 10 unfinished Fast Forward episodes are considered in the official episode count, just like "Nightmares Recycled." As far as 2K3 canon goes, yes, there are only 155 episodes...or I guess 158 now with Turtles Forever.

 

[Storm Eagle]

The 10 unfinished Fast Forward episodes are considered in the official episode count, just like "Nightmares Recycled." As far as 2K3 canon goes, yes, there are only 155 episodes...or I guess 158 now with Turtles Forever.

Oh, so they are counted, even if they're unfinished. It makes sense now.

 

[gobo]

How are these episodes 167 through 169 when there are 156 episodes total?

4kids counts their 11 cancelled episodes as far as production numbers are concerned. It goes like this:

TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES
SEASON ONE
001 - "Things Change"
002 - "A Better Mousetrap"
003 - "Attack of the Mousers"
004 - "Meet Casey Jones"
005 - "Nano"
006 - "Darkness on the Edge of Town"
007 - "The Way of Invisibility"
008 - "Fallen Angel"
009 - "Garbageman"
010 - "The Shredder Strikes" Part One
011 - "The Shredder Strikes" Part Two
012 - "The Unconvincing Turtle Titan"
013 - "Notes from the Underground" Part One
014 - "Notes from the Underground" Part Two
015 - "Notes from the Underground" Part Three
016 - "The King"
017 - "The Shredder Strikes Back" Part One
018 - "The Shredder Strikes Back" Part Two
019 - "Tales of Leo"
020 - "The Monster Hunter"
021 - "Return to New York" Part One
022 - "Return to New York" Part Two
023 - "Return to New York" Part Three
024 - "Lone Raph and Cub"
025 - "The Search for Splinter" Part One
026 - "The Search for Splinter" Part Two
SEASON TWO
027 - Turtles in Space, Part One "The Fugitoid"
028 - Turtles in Space, Part Two "The Trouble with Triceratons"
029 - Turtles in Space, Part Three "The Big House"
030 - Turtles in Space, Part Four "The Arena"
031 - Turtles in Space, Part Five "Triceraton Wars"
032 - "Secret Origins" Part One
033 - "Secret Origins" Part Two
034 - "Secret Origins" Part Three
035 - "Reflections"
036 - "The Ultimate Ninja"
037 - "Modern Love: The Return of Nano"
038 - "What a Croc!"
039 - "Return to the Underground"
040 - "City at War" Part One
041 - "City at War" Part Two
042 - "City at War" Part Three
043 - "Junklantis"
044 - "The Golden Puck"
045 - "Rogue in the House" Part One
046 - "Rogue in the House" Part Two
047 - "April's Artifact"
048 - "Return of the Justice Force"
049 - "The Big Brawl" Part One
050 - "The Big Brawl" Part Two
051 - "The Big Brawl" Part Three
052 - "The Big Brawl" Part Four
SEASON THREE
053 - "The Christmas Aliens"
054 - Space Invaders, Part I
055 - Space Invaders, Part II
056 - Space Invaders, Part III
057 - Worlds Collide, Part I
058 - Worlds Collide, Part II
059 - Worlds Collide, Part III
060 - "Touch and Go"
061 - "Hunted"
062 - "H.A.T.E."
063 - "Nobody's Fool"
064 - "New Blood"
065 - "The Lesson"
066 - "The Darkness Within"
067 - "Mission of Gravity"
068 - "The Entity Below"
069 - "Time Travails"
070 - "Hun on the Run"
071 - "Reality Check"
072 - "Across the Universe"
073 - "Same As It Never Was"
074 - "The Real World" Part One
075 - "The Real World" Part Two
076 - "Bishop's Gambit"
077 - "Exodus" Part One
078 - "Exodus" Part Two
SEASON FOUR
079 - "Cousin Sid"
080 - "The People's Choice"
081 - "Sons of the Silent Age"
082 - "Dragon's Brew"
083 - "I, Monster"
084 - "Grudge Match"
085 - "A Wing and a Prayer"
086 - "Bad Day"
087 - "Aliens Among Us"
088 - "Dragons Rising"
089 - "Still Nobody"
090 - "All Hallows Thieves"
091 - "Samurai Tourist"
092 - "The Ancient One"
093 - "Scion of the Shredder"
094 - "Prodigal Son"
095 - "Outbreak"
096 - "Trouble with Augie"
097 - "Insane in the Membrane"
098 - "Return of Savanti" Part One
099 - "Return of Savanti" Part Two
100 - "Tale of Master Yoshi"
101 - "Adventures in Turtle Sitting"
102 - "Good Genes" Part One
103 - "Good Genes" Part Two
104 - "?Ninja Tribunal"
SEASON FIVE
105 - "Lap of the Gods"
106 - "Demons and Dragons"
107 - "Legend of the 5 Dragons"
108 - "More Worlds Than One"
109 - "Beginning of the End"
110 - "Nightmares Recycled"
111 - "Membership Drive"
112 - "New World Order" Part One
113 - "New World Order" Part Two
114 - "Fathers and Sons"
115 - "Past and Present"
116 - "Enter the Dragons" Part One
117 - "Enter the Dragons" Part Two
TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES" FAST FORWARD
SEASON ONE
118 - "Future Shellshock!"
119 - "Obsolete"
120 - "Home Invasion"
121 - "Headlock Prime"
122 - "Playtime's Over"
123 - "Bishop to Knight"
124 - "Night of Sh'Okanabo"
125 - "Clash of the Turtle Titans"
126 - "Fly Me to the Moon"
127 - "Invasion of the Body Jacker"
128 - "The Freaks Come out at Night"
129 - "Bad Blood"
130 - "The Journal"
131 - "The Gaminator"
132 - "Graduation Day: Class of 2105"
133 - "Timing is Everything"
134 - "Enter the Jammerhead"
135 - "Milk Run"
136 - "Fall of Darius"
137 - "Turtle X-Tinction"
138 - "Race for Glory"
139 - "Head of State"
140 - "DNA is Thicker than Water"
141 - "The Cosmic Completist"
142 - "The Day of Awakening"
143 - "Zixxth Sense"
SEASON TWO
144 - "Master Fighter 2105"
145 - "Something Wicked"
146 - "Bounty Huntin'"
147 - "Turtles Turtles Everywhere"
148 - "Law and Disorder"
149 - "The Devil and Dr. Stockman"
150 - "The Incredible Shrinking Serling"
151 - "Space Usagi"
152 - "City under Siege"
153 - "Homeward Bound"
TMNT: BACK TO THE SEWER
SEASON ONE
154 - "Tempus Fugit"
155 - "Karate Schooled"
156 - "Something Wicked"
157 - "The Engagement Ring"
158 - "Hacking Stockman"
159 - "The Incredible Shrinking Serling"
160 - "Identity Crisis"
161 - "Web Wranglers"
162 - "SuperQuest"
163 - "Virtual Reality Check"
164 - "City Under Siege"
165 - "Super Power Struggle"
166 - "Wedding Bells and Bytes"
TURTLES FOREVER
167 - "Turtles Forever" Part One
168 - "Turtles Forever" Part Two
169 - "Turtles Forever" Part Three

This list would be so much nicer if I knew what the tags to cross-out text were...

 

[Storm Eagle]

4kids counts their 11 canceled episodes as far as production numbers are concerned.

Right, right. They're not the only ones either. The same thing happened with Power Rangers in that show's second season. There were about seven episodes that were either just scripted or incompletely filmed, and if you saw the episode list with their production numbers, you'd notice a gap.

 

[Dogasu]

I just watched the movie.

This was my first time actually sitting through an entire production featuring the 2K3 TMNT. I had tried to watch a few episodes of the TV series here and there, but the production values - the pixelated animation that made it look like a Playstation One FMV, the forgettable music that's playing in the background ALL THE TIME - really turned me away. Yes, I had heard that the series was "good" or whatever, but for me, those issues I just mentioned were just too damned distracting.

Well, those things are all present in this movie. Yet, I still managed to finish it.

Overall...it was alright, I guess. Seeing the old school turtles being ridiculed constantly was pretty funny since a lot of the things they say / do are really over-the-top by today's standards. I especially liked the comment about how the blimp is the "lamest vehicle ever" and the turtles pointing out the initials on the belts. The tickle machine plan at the end and the 2K3 turtles asking if the 1980s April O'Neil worked at a garage got a laugh from me as well.

Wasn't a huge fan of the way they handled the universe disappearing, though, because of how inconsistent it was. In one scene, we'd see the "nothingness" creep over the universe at a super high pace, taking over entire city blocks in mere seconds. But then it would slow down to a crawl in the scenes following it. I also don't care for April O'Neil's 2K3 design (she looks like she's twelve) or Casey Jone's voice. The old school turtles laughing at every damn thing was kind of fun at first, but it started to get on my nerves by the end of it.

The whole "replace the word "hell" with the word "shell"" thing was also really really annoying. Do they do that a lot in the actual show as well?

 

[PC!]

The whole "replace the word "hell" with the word "shell"" thing was also really really annoying. Do they do that a lot in the actual show as well?

You could play a drinking game with how many times they say that line throughout the series. Wouldn't surprise me if they said it at least once per episode.

You could also play a drinking game with how many times Raphael, who's supposedly the toughest of the turtles, says an uncharacteristically corny line.

 

[veemonjosh]

I also don't care for April O'Neil's 2K3 design (she looks like she's twelve)

That was just her redesign for the final season, her design for the first five seasons was MUCH better looking.

 

[Goldstar!]

Originally Posted by Dogasu
I also don't care for April O'Neil's 2K3 design (she looks like she's twelve)

That was just her redesign for the final season, her design for the first five seasons was MUCH better looking.

I like both of Apil's 2K3 designs myself. It's just that with her "Back to the Sewers" re-design, it seemed as though the shows' artists just tired to make April look as much like an anime heroine as possible.

 

[Ioz]

I enjoyed it for the most part. I thought they made the 80s Turtles too goofy and basically made them all versions of 80s Mikey. Since I'm more of an 80s Turtle fan than 2k3 fan, it took away from it some.

 

[Sketch]

Originally Posted by Dogasu
I also don't care for April O'Neil's 2K3 design (she looks like she's twelve)


I like both of Apil's 2K3 designs myself. It's just that with her "Back to the Sewers" re-design, it seemed as though the shows' artists just tired to make April look as much like an anime heroine as possible.

I'd say they tried to make her look like her 2007 movie model. Same with Casey.

 

[CyberCubed]

I had tried to watch a few episodes of the TV series here and there, but the production values - the pixelated animation that made it look like a Playstation One FMV, the forgettable music that's playing in the background ALL THE TIME - really turned me away.

"Pixelated animation?" What TV were you watching on, Dogasu? And I don't know why you're comparing the music here to 4kids anime dub music, most of the 2k3 tracks were pretty decent and fit whatever was going on in said scene. This is not the Pokemon dub.

I honestly cannot believe you're complaining about the production values. If there's one show 4kids put effort into, it was this. 4kids spent a ton on the animation, the fight scenes were fluid and flowed well, etc.

"Playstation One FMV animation?" You really need to watch this show in proper order on a good TV.

 

[Sketch]

4kids counts their 11 cancelled episodes as far as production numbers are concerned. It goes like this:

SEASON TWO
144 - "Master Fighter 2105"
145 - "Something Wicked"
146 - "Bounty Huntin'"
147 - "Turtles Turtles Everywhere"
148 - "Law and Disorder"
149 - "The Devil and Dr. Stockman"
150 - "The Incredible Shrinking Serling"
151 - "Space Usagi"
152 - "City under Siege"
153 - "Homeward Bound"

You know as much as I generally disliked Fast Forward compared to the first 5 seasons this stuff sounds rather interesting. Especially The Devil and Dr. Stockman and Space Usagi. And an explanation how they got home would have been nice. A pitty those and Nightmares Recycled were never made.