"Toonami" News & Discussion Thread

Toonami

This response worries me, dismissing worries about an all-shonen block. No, people aren't demanding you air experimental non-action shows. We just want good adult-oriented action shows in the vein of Bebop and GITS. And don't say "they don't make shows like those anymore"; there's not enough of them, but they are some and at least some of them should show up on Toonami (Baccano, Black Lagoon, Tiger and Bunny, Michiko to Hatchin, etc.).

What they mean is that they are going to air shows that they think are good action series and dont care about the "shonen" or "senin" classifications as long as whatever series they air fits on Toonami. They only care about airing shows they think are good, and they already said they are going to look into to getting shorter series for the block. From past experience we know that they dont only like shonen shows, so to expect the block to end up entirely composed of shonen series is a non-issue. I do think, though, that concerns about too many long-running shonen series on the block at the same time are valid, and those are the ones I am hoping they are listening to and understanding.
 
Toonami

This response worries me, dismissing worries about an all-shonen block. No, people aren't demanding you air experimental non-action shows. We just want good adult-oriented action shows in the vein of Bebop and GITS. And don't say "they don't make shows like those anymore"; there's not enough of them, but they are some and at least some of them should show up on Toonami (Baccano, Black Lagoon, Tiger and Bunny, Michiko to Hatchin, etc.).

Wow....just WOW. I never though I'd see the day they'd say that. That's just brazen disrespect to the fans really. I agree with you on the idea of good adult-action shows but even I would have liked to have seen some non action in some form like Tenchi GXP. Even if it's one show. I guess it's not "building you a better cartoon show" anymore it's "how much can we make from pre-existing fanbases" as well as them becoming like the New Guard at CN where it's ratings over everything else. Never thought I'd say that....and before anyone says "It's a business" I know that. I just wonder at what cost this will be for Toonami.

What they mean is that they are going to air shows that they think are good action series and dont care about the "shonen" or "senin" classifications as long as whatever series they air fits on Toonami. They only care about airing shows they think are good, and they already said they are going to look into to getting shorter series for the block. From past experience we know that they dont only like shonen shows, so to expect the block to end up entirely composed of shonen series is a non-issue. I do think, though, that concerns about too many long-running shonen series on the block at the same time are valid, and those are the ones I am hoping they are listening to and understanding.

I would disagree. Given that response, they'd basically said they are only going for action shows with a broad appeal. While labels really don't matter one could easily interpret that was them saying it's only going to be shonen anime since that has all the requirements they want. Pre-existing fanbases, easy access to ratings and therefore money. I really hope that they change that stance soon. I'm still in shock.
 
Mmm, I agree with Cartoon X. Lables like "shonen" or "seinen" should not get in the way of Toonami airing it.

For example: Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. Arguably one of the highest quality anime that AS has aired recently, and its Shonen. One Piece, which people love, is Shonen. Inyasha, which was one of AS's most watched shows, is Shonen. Deadman Wonderland, which people seemed to enjoy, is Shonen. AND THEY WERE ALL GOOD SHOWS.

But really, if you don't want Toonami to air a quality show just because its Shonen....then I feel bad for you. And just because something is seinen doesn't make it better. Casshern Sins had a lot of haters, moreso than Kekkaishi, I'd wager. Besides, they didn't out-right say that they would only air Shonen shows. But you know what? Seeing as how GXP bombed, I would not blame them if they did only air Shonen anime.

Rant done.
 
Wow....just WOW. I never though I'd see the day they'd say that. That's just brazen disrespect to the fans really.

Um... No, it's not?

Action has been Toonami's focus since day one, and if it's going to consist of shonen or mecha or whatever flavor of it, so be it.
 
Labels shouldn't get in the way. What I'm worried about based on their response is that it sounds like that labels do matter, only they're not interested in getting new seinen series, even though there are broadly appealing action packed seinen out there. And even within the wide shonen label, it's especially troubling if they limit themselves to the specific younger-skewing eternally-running adventure Shonen Jump niche within the wider category, which certainly does well for them but kills variety.
 
I dunno, they just aired the Evangelion film, so I doubt that Shonen is the only thing on their mind.

With that said, if the Shonen shows get the best ratings, then I think that airing Shonen shows should be their highest priority.
 
We like great action shows people will watch. We feel good about where we’re headed. Toonami isn’t and never will be the place where you find experimental non-action anime.
Then what was Casshern Sins? Nothing ever happened resembling action on that show.
 
Then what was Casshern Sins? Nothing ever happened resembling action on that show.

Err...what? I know battles weren't exactly the most central part of that show but there were plenty of fight scenes in there, so to say it had no action at all is totally wrong. Not everything they get has to be totally centered around the action scenes themselves and while I don't think they should go for something as slow as Casshern Sins anytime soon(even though I love the show), I certainly don't mind them getting more plot centric shows.
 
Not everything they get has to be totally centered around the action scenes themselves and while I don't think they should go for something as slow as Casshern Sins anytime soon(even though I love the show), I certainly don't mind them getting more plot centric shows.

I don't think they meant "we're only buying shonen stuff" either....otherwise they wouldn't still be running Bebop. "Action" can be defined more broadly.
 
I honestly don't see why they wouldn't start the show on episode 1. While it does have alot of existing fans they are going to want to get as many episodes out of the show as possible so episode 1 seems the logical place to start. Plus they started Naruto on episode 1 despite the shows already large exposure over the years.
 
Then what was Casshern Sins? Nothing ever happened resembling action on that show.

Ahem, [video=youtube;DX6r7YXWLic]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX6r7YXWLic[/video]

Sounds like somebody didn't really watch it considering Casshern was full of moments.
 
Then what was Casshern Sins? Nothing ever happened resembling action on that show.

As other posters have pointed out, you're wrong.

Action was a part of the series, although it was more of a secondary focus of the show rather than at the forefront. That's why most of the fights were short and (purposefully) anticlimactic; you can't expect exhilarating, drawn-out action scenes when your main character is both strong and immortal. That would suck all the tension out if action was the primary focus.

Casshern Sins was more of a tragic character study to see how much Casshern can restrain and redeem himself after causing a global catastrophe. That was the point of the show.
 
I honestly don't see why they wouldn't start the show on episode 1. While it does have alot of existing fans they are going to want to get as many episodes out of the show as possible so episode 1 seems the logical place to start. Plus they started Naruto on episode 1 despite the shows already large exposure over the years.

The problem with that is that it would take years to get to brand new material on the block and with the first few seasons legally available online and through DVDs, people could just choose to jump to those means to watch more of the series and not watch it on the block instead. Starting off at episode one could potentially help new fans get into it, but with a weekly block like Toonami, it could also move far too slow for new fans. As for Naruto, while that has a lot of exposure over the years, I'm not sure if that's the best comparison. Naruto at least has an end date in sight and if they could have, they probably would have jumped to get Shippuden instead. Since they couldn't, they just went with the first series.

In regards to the response, I didn't get the impression that it was rude either. What I got from it is that the labels for the shows aren't as important to them as the overall quality itself. The block has always been primarily focused on action, so that hasn't changed. As for Casshern Sins, there was plenty of action in that series. Not a whole lot, but there were some moments of fighting, even if it wasn't the primary focus. The only show that they've aired that doesn't have much, if any, action is GXP, but I gave up on that after four or five episodes, so I don't know if the action has increased since I last saw it. I don't care to find out if it has. I'm just hoping that they'll get more shows that I like. Getting more long-running shows that lock up slots on the block for years sounds more like a valid concern than just more shonen series to me.
 
Toonami

This response worries me, dismissing worries about an all-shonen block. No, people aren't demanding you air experimental non-action shows. We just want good adult-oriented action shows in the vein of Bebop and GITS. And don't say "they don't make shows like those anymore"; there's not enough of them, but they are some and at least some of them should show up on Toonami (Baccano, Black Lagoon, Tiger and Bunny, Michiko to Hatchin, etc.).

Yes, they rather missed the point of what they were asking. At no point did they mention "experimental non-action" shows. No they were talking about shonen anime though namely in the vain of One piece, naruto, bleach, and DBZ... these aren't JUST action shows they are EPICALLY LONG actions shows that carry a similar appeal.

First while FMA is technically shonen, i would not put in the same class as those other 4; its far too different a series, and it carries a different kind of appeal than others. In fact, shonen is often used like a genre descriptor when its really more of a demograptic descriptor (shows that appeal to young male teens); Heck detective conan is ALSO considered a shonen and it's NOTHING like all of those other series we have been talking about. Action is not all the same, it comes in different flavors, and people like variety. One piece, dbz, naruto, and Bleach all feel like the similar kinds of shows, while FMA, bebop, GITS, and so on feel different. A lot of Fans want to keep seeing variety as we have been getting...

Second, fans are worried about how LONG these series are. These shows are so long that if you give them a timeslot they will own that timeslot forever. That means one less new show of a different kind that we can get. If they were in theory to fill up the time slot with Bleach, naruto, one piece, DBZ, and yu yu hakusho then toonami's line up would never change and their would be no variety... THAT is what that commentator's question and worry is about... I said it before, but personally i actually kinda LIKE that toonami can't rerun series over and over again because it gives them an excuse to keep changing the line up and keep things fresh and interesting.

I didn't look favorably on Skypiea lately but honestly it's a good arc to give people a feel for both the adventure and the fighting in One Piece. On top of that while it's a little slow at points it has no filler that I recall until G8 which is one of the better anime-only stories. The main problem is you don't get hardly any background on the characters in Skypiea and that's one thing you do get with the lost memories story after the Davy Back arc. Probably either wouldn't be too off-putting for people to start on. No matter where they start they run the risk of putting off some viewers.

I question what is the best starting point for a casual observer to begin their One Piece journey on because IMO until Baratie it feels really childish (something FUNimation's swearing may have been trying to skew) and the art style becomes a bit more palpable over time as well. Then again I don't think it looks any more like a kid's show than early Naruto so maybe that's a moot point.

Its really hard to say... though i feel like I'm leaning most towards skypeia. Each arc has their advantages...

Alabasta arc has a lot of good plot points in it that become relevant later and is a very strong arc. However, there begs to the question do you start at the beginning of the grandline(season 2) where the storyline technically starts, or do you start later at the alabasta arc itself(season 4)? Would skipping the build up towards the alabasta arc seem a bit off putting? Not to mention that part of the point of skipping ahead is try and get to the later stuff sooner, and alabasta at this point is actually fairly early in the series; so alabasta feels like it might be TOO soon.... though i do feel as though they could considering using the movies to speed things up... Start with the grandline, go through season 2, ending with little garden, then instead of airing the entire drum island arc, just air the 9th movie, and then a few more episodes then air the alabasta movie; and then we get to jaya and the skypeia arc.


Starting with davy back has both pros and cons... on the plus side, the marine HQ arc does well to highlight each of the characters thus giving you a decent idea about them. Also the davy Back arc gets right into the action soon which can make it a bit more appealing. That arc is then followed by the lost memories arc which will tell viewers a bit about the history of the characters, and this then leads into Water 7 which is a great arc; davy back is also fairly late into the series and get's us to later stuff sooner... the downside however is, in my opinion, that the davy back arc is NOT a very strong arc in and of itself. Its kinda of fun, but action wise it feels rather weak; and foxy can either come off as funny or just annoying. This could make it troublesome for one piece to find it's audience; the arc is 10 episodes long and i fear that might be too long for viewers to stick around and might drop the series before it gets better. Foxy will be one of the very first villains a new viewer will see and he may not put on a strong performance to make those viewers want to keep watching; unlike villains like Croc and Eneru who make for great villains and bring some great action... If you want to put you're best foot forward, davy back seems like a poor choice.


The skypeia arc... this would be between alabasta and davy back... Skypeia is later than alabasta, but like alabsata it is a very strong arc (though it doesn't have as many plot points). Its takes a few episodes to get going and get into the action, but all in all its an enjoyable arc that really reflects well on the series; the adventure aspect of the ealier episodes might be enough to keep people around to get into the real action. If we want one piece too give a good first impression to snag it's audience, skypeia and alabasta seem better at that than Davy Back.


There is also the option of starting off with Water 7, but i feel like that would be TOO late. Water 7 has a lot of emotional impact which i feel would come off stronger IF you know the characters well beforehand. I feel like the audience would enjoy water 7 more if they knew the characters better and thus had atleast one or 2 arcs to grow attached to them first before we get into water 7.


But like i said... so far I'm mostly leaning towards skypeia being the best point for them to start. Its later in the series, though not as late as water 7, and its very strong arc and thus good for making a good first impression on viewers and convincing them to stick with the show.
 
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I for 1 would prefer them continue from Skypeia, whether right where it left off or even a # of episodes before that, as if to say it never did end, and those who watched it on Toonami who like me, haven't seen it since, could be caught back up. I know the Toonami crew is aware of how many episodes are between wherever they decide to go from where Japan is today.


My case is start from Skypiea to continue where it left off. Somewhere I saw that there's flashbacks that take you back to some events of the series. It may be baffling some to new viewers, but I consider the episodes of OP that already aired. We all know Naruto's angle, but One Piece doesn't have a second series or any episodes held elsewhere. Like I mentioned, I haven't watched the series since Toonami last played it, so anything further that may explain past details, I myself can't honestly give.


Would I mind if it began from episode 1? No, as I'd get to see it FUNimation style, but for me, I'd prefer double showings to play catch up, even if I know generally what happens from what I saw in the 4dub, as I perhaps may tire of just 1 a week.
 
Wow....just WOW. I never though I'd see the day they'd say that. That's just brazen disrespect to the fans really. I agree with you on the idea of good adult-action shows but even I would have liked to have seen some non action in some form like Tenchi GXP. Even if it's one show. I guess it's not "building you a better cartoon show" anymore it's "how much can we make from pre-existing fanbases" as well as them becoming like the New Guard at CN where it's ratings over everything else. Never thought I'd say that....and before anyone says "It's a business" I know that. I just wonder at what cost this will be for Toonami.
Dude, how can you complain? We just got One Piece, something that everyone had been asking for since Toonami's return. Nothing is more worthy of Toonami than One Piece imho. They have yet to make a move to suggest they're exploiting fanbases, and that's a ridiculous notion anyways. If they were focused on making purely cold and calculated business decisions, Saturday would be all [as] Comedy reruns. All they were saying is that they need to turn a profit somehow, and action shows (that fit with the Toonami style) and with broad appeal will make Toonami sustainable.

The future is secure.
 
Well, I'm just going to say it. I'm tired of talking about where One Piece is going to start. In my opinion if you have a suggestion you should send it to the tumblr and leave it to the Toonami crew to decide what to do. I'm sure they know what they are doing. Otherwise we're just splitting hairs and should probably be grateful the block is getting One Piece at all. And if you're not a fan of the show or Toonami getting it, I'm sure there'll be something new that you'll care about soon enough.
 
Toonami will play more seinin they just don't care about those demographic labels. They're going to play what they consider to be good action cartoons that they believe will appeal to both the dedicated and casual viewers. Toonami has been shounen heavy since at least 2002 or even 2001 and it only became more so as the years went on and to a lot of people that's Toonami. They're still mixing in some 2000 and 2001 flavor, maybe not as much as some people would like but to say they are ignoring what fans want seems to be a rather skewed opinion of what they've been doing when the demand for Naruto and One Piece was substantial.
 
Well, I'm just going to say it. I'm tired of talking about where One Piece is going to start. In my opinion if you have a suggestion you should send it to the tumblr and leave it to the Toonami crew to decide what to do. I'm sure they know what they are doing. Otherwise we're just splitting hairs and should probably be grateful the block is getting One Piece at all. And if you're not a fan of the show or Toonami getting it, I'm sure there'll be something new that you'll care about soon enough.

Thank you! I'm getting sick of all the complaining and people acting like they run the show. These people have worked at Cartoon Network for over decade and half, I think they're capable of making their own decisions without comments from the peanut gallery.

I really miss the days when people like Landstander and company hung out here, had fun, and didn't argue pointlessly in circles...
 

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